Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

[opendoor]

..I weirdly avoid backing up or changing my distance from the boundaries ("lane") even if I have the whole room to myself. I've asked coaches to tailgate or block me to see if I can make the concept work without infinite..

This reminds me of a great moment that I was able to experience last year, JournalInTime . I attended a voice training workshop in Malérargues, southern France. Each participant had to present their own song material on the piano and formulate their fears, problems or questions related to it. One participant expressed the fear that his voice would be drowned out on stage and could no longer be heard. The teacher then ordered the group to form a circle around the piano and the singer. Then, during the song, we had to move closer and closer to the piano and draw the circle tighter and tighter. At the beginning of the last verse, we stood in front of, next to and behind the performer. We tickled him and made faces. We disrupted the piano playing. The singer had to sing against us and assert himself. It was the most moving performance I have ever experienced. At the end, everyone involved was in tears.

 

[JournalInTime]

This reminds me of a great moment that I was able to experience last year, JournalInTime . I attended a voice training workshop in Malérargues, southern France. Each participant had to present their own song material on the piano and formulate their fears, problems or questions related to it. One participant expressed the fear that his voice would be drowned out on stage and could no longer be heard. The teacher then ordered the group to form a circle around the piano and the singer. Then, during the song, we had to move closer and closer to the piano and draw the circle tighter and tighter. At the beginning of the last verse, we stood in front of, next to and behind the performer. We tickled him and made faces. We disrupted the piano playing. The singer had to sing against us and assert himself. It was the most moving performance I have ever experienced. At the end, everyone involved was in tears.

I am laughing at the tickling, not the exercise or the tears.

 

[opendoor]

I am laughing at the tickling, not the exercise or the tears.

It was such an absurd, strange or bizarre moment during this very personal love song.

 

[opendoor]

..We do have one or two solo female teachers. I know some of.. their regular students.. None of them look like clones or..

Fully agree.

I have already reported on this here. I had several private lessons and workshops with Chico and Juana. I asked Juana if I could have private lessons just with her. She denied, she said she would only come in pairs with Chico. A pity!

 

[Bailango]

Uncertain whether or not I should take that as a compliment! But I'd disagree. It's more about complementing each other within the relationship. Nothing to do with IQ.

Not IQ. I was typing EQ.

 

[Bailango]

Unfortunately, no Asian wants to admit that.

What do you mean? Asians know and acknowledge different schools of philosophy. In ancient days healthy debate about differences was a tradition.

 

[opendoor]

What do you mean? Asians know and acknowledge different schools of philosophy. In ancient days healthy debate about differences was a tradition.

I meant more families in my circle of friends and acquaintances.

 

[Miradamiranda]

In tango, weight and strength have little to do with it. It's all about technique."

A lot of people don’t understand this. And part of ‘technique’ is also being able to estimate your partner’s weight for all sorts of moves, not just shared axis moves.

Some of my partners who are much shorter and lighter in weight than me but with good technique often surprise onlookers with difficult moves that require a good judgement of my weight. But it’s not just up to the leaders. Followers most definitely have to learn how not to pull the leaders off balance. Some of my taller and stronger partners are hopeless with volcadas colgadas calecitas etc and even some basic apilado stuff because they are used to lightweight partners and haven’t learned to counter the center of gravity. Even some otherwise very very experienced partners.
And some of my lightweight partners have complimented me that (with me as opposed to some smaller followers) it’s easier for them to do multiple giros continuously, pivoting on one foot with all sorts of ornaments while I am doing all sorts of possibly unpredictable things with my timing and step size of my grapevine around him. Because I’m heavier and taller I am also extremely conscious that the smallest shift can pull him off. (It’s not that I’m fat with an ideal BMI of 22, it’s the center of gravity that’s the issue.)

 

[Miradamiranda]

Musicality can't be taught; it can only be jump-started or inspired

Here I disagree. You CAN learn how to listen, what to listen for, how to translate what you hear to how you move.
That some people don’t do the effort, has mostly to do with focusing too much on the logistics of the steps. And that nobody helped them to learn to listen.

 

[Bailango]

When it comes to whether musicality in dancing can be taught, I am both yes and no.

My fave examples is musicians (tango or salsa) when they dance are terrible! Okay that’s a bit exaggeration and dance isn’t their primary skill. They certainly know what to listen to since they play regularly.

In addition to drills and teaching technique, a similar drills can be taught to reflect the music in your steps. It won’t create most musical dancers but it would move people on from dancing like they are stepping to metronome. The drills should be individual. Drills may conjure up image of everyone doing the same thing. No. Give the students three or four options. Then ask them to do the drills while walking down the line of dance and combining those three or four options in any permutations depending on the music. Simplest options could be single time, double time, pause and rebound or rock step. A lot can be added to these options. Next song take the pause away and replace it with say half-time. Repeat. In partnerwork drills can be only leaders to dance to the music using the similar exercise where you are restricted to four options to choose from. Then switch and only the followers will initiate dancing to the music without backloading. These type of exercises is to give tools to students express musicality.

The risk is a lot of students when dancing at milonga might be expressing musicality in the similar ways.

 

[Miradamiranda]

My fave examples is musicians (tango or salsa) when they dance are terrible!

Musicians are either really bad or really good dancers. It’s hard for a musician to face that it’s a different skill to dance to music than it is to play it, so many don’t try hard enough after experiencing that first troubling sensation of - for example - not knowing where ‘one’ is. But, once they apply themselves to really learn, they mostly become significantly more musical dancers than others of similar training and experience. This is something I have consciously observed over decades.

 

[opendoor]

..has mostly to do with focusing too much on the logistics of the steps. And that nobody helped them to learn to listen.

But the conscious brain logistics should be internalized after three years. Even then, it seems that no capacity is directed towards listening. Perhaps it is a question of priorities (both of the student and the teacher). Musicality workshops, even with stars like Joaquín Amenábar or Murat Emdesel, are never fully booked and have to be subsidized through the income from parties.

 

[Rabbit]

Here I disagree. You CAN learn how to listen, what to listen for, how to translate what you hear to how you move.

I agree but I don't think it is being effectively taught. I have been able to teach listening perception 1 on 1 - I expect it to be harder in a group class because I discovered that everyone starts off hearing music in a different way

There is also timing, which can be drilled once you know what you are listening to

Then we have the translation / choreographic layer, which is just generally poorly understood

 

[Brummbaer]

I don't think it is being effectively taught

It's being taught for those who look. Is it adequate? Probably not. It's a starter. You've not set off to learn music, play a musical instrument, lead an orchestra , or compose, but to dance. This music was the 'pop' of the day and just absorbed; today it's 'foreign' - and in language(s) most don't understand. Of course some may realise a latent musical ability.

I don't think you can do more than describe the basics, and different orchestras. That's 'good enough'. Beyond that you're delving into music rather than dance.

 

[pianistamediano]

Musicians are either really bad or really good dancers. It’s hard for a musician to face that it’s a different skill to dance to music than it is to play it, so many don’t try hard enough after experiencing that first troubling sensation of - for example - not knowing where ‘one’ is. But, once they apply themselves to really learn, they mostly become significantly more musical dancers than others of similar training and experience. This is something I have consciously observed over decades.

Our bodies already move to the music when we play our instruments — it isn't difficult to move to the music, but it is difficult to dance to the music. Personally, I believe that many musicians drop out of tango for the same reasons that non-musicians do, and perhaps with the added reason that while tango music is relatively effortless for us to comprehend, expressing it to the same extent and proficiency with which we can express music with our own instruments takes a long time, and is filled with frustration and annoyance that we just can't get it.

It's the same with learning another instrument after already being proficient in another; most of the time, we know what sounds and textures we wish to elicit from the very beginning, but our technique and experience is lacking.

Although that last part only really applies to musicians who take music at least somewhat seriously; people who don't have exacting standards are happily not bothered as much by that.