Low vs. High boleo - leader's choice or follower's choice?

[Zoopsia59]

Looks like we cross-posted Zoops. But I think we agree on the movement, if not what to call it. I consider that a victory for both of us on a tango forum.

Where's the high-5 smiley when you need it?
Guess this will do: :cheers:

 

[salthepal]

I don't understand your answer.. You answer "yes" to Dave's question of "is it the same movement?" but then go on to say that there is a difference in the upper body in the lead? (which implies it isn't the same movement for the leader to do one or the other) Maybe the heat here is making it hard for me to figure out what you are saying.

You also seem to be ignoring the followers who have responded as to why their leg isn't free from the hip for this move and why it's a matter of personal preference whether the boleo involves the thigh (as in the "attitude" position described by myself and Bastet as something we've seen) or happens from the knee down as quite a few of us do it.

There is no "should" that dictates which style is correct. It really does come down to the follower's style, flexibility, and preference.

Dave asked if, for the follower, from the leg down, they are the same movement. If the lady's free leg is free, then she shouldn't be doing anything different in the lower body. For a leader, yes, the leads are different. The lead in upper body determines how the lady's leg moves. For a linear boleo (which I rarely, if ever, lead) the man will send the lady away from him then stop that movement, making the leg fly out linearly. For a circular boleo he's going to pivot her in one direction going around her, then reverse that energy, more or less. It's the same send and stop concept, but one is achieved by (sort of) pushing her away then bringing her back; the other is by going around her in different ways.

Re: the ladies' styling choice with her leg, whether she involves her thighs, etc. those are her choices. I'm not ignoring that, but it has nothing to do with the fact that there really is no difference in the leg movement between the linear and circular boleo (aside from the one being linear and the other circular). If you choose to keep your thighs together for a boleo, then you'll do that regardless of the fact that it is linear or circular. Again, I'm not saying that there is a right way or wrong way; I appreciate that each lady's boleo feels different, and I'm not trying to dictate to ladies what they should or shouldn't do (OK, maybe that's a lie. I insist that ladies not kick other people when they do a boleo)

 

[salthepal]

As to the difference between a high boleo and a low boleo, I can (with the right lady) lead a very soft high boleo and a very sharp and strong low boleo. Such a low boleo doesn't just feel like it's a pivot back and forth, which I do, but don't consider a boleo, because it doesn't quite have that sudden change of direction.

 

[Joe]

With the right lady, you can lead any and every type of boleo you desire.

 

[salthepal]

With the right lady, you can lead any and every type of boleo you desire.

:cheers:

 

[gniksic]

I think the confusion is stemming from the way you define "boleo". My impression is that to you, the raising of the leg is the boleo. To some of us, the boleo happens whether or not your foot comes off the floor because the change of direction creates a whipping effect that we, as followers, feel in our BODY.

So when you talk about not leading the boleo, I think you mean you don't lead her leg to lift or not. But to me and some others, there is still a "boleo" even with our foot on the floor. The lifting of the foot is not what we call a "boleo". The whip effect felt all over is the "boleo", hence the possibility of something called a "low boleo".

Yes, you're right... sorry if I caused confusion. One reason I entered this discussion is a situation when I lead the boleo with a lot of energy, as I described it, but the follower damps the circular motion without an apparent reason and her leg stays on the ground because of that. But that means some of that energy gets reflected back into me, causing some discomfort, as if I had just lost my balance. (physics: something like an impedance mismatch at the interface between two media... LOL)

Salthepal, I agree 100%, but I think you should have put a slightly stronger accent on the "right lady". (wink)

 

[tangobro]

... I wonder whether it is the follower's choice to make high or low boleo? In other words, when I followed with low boleo, would the leader feel dissapointed since he would have expected high boleo? If it is lead, how can I tell?

As others have said, the technique for leading the high vs low boleo is slightly different. If the lady recognizes which is led she either allows, amplifies or damps down the energy.

In this workshop the instructors taught the students to dance with low boleos and taught the techniques for leading & responding to high boleos so that the ladies would feel & know the difference.

Cristina emphasized that the followers were responsible for keeping the boleos low if the space was not appropriate. Daniel emphasized that the leaders should not lead high boleos if they did not fit the music and the space.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aryOmsz_KYM

in this clip they demonstrated with music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV-RL6Krb-4

If I lead a high boleo it's because I've decided that it fits the music, the mood & the floor conditions. I will not be disappointed, but I may feel the difference in the energy output vs the energy received & sometimes it's a jarring feeling, I think gniksic's impedance mismatch summarizes it well.