Milongueros del barrio

[Brummbaer]

Such a range is easy to find here.

I think you inevitably find teachers who promote a particular style, either because it's their personal preference, or what sells. I'm grateful our very local teacher (who we haven't used) has moved, for milongas, from his preference in music (sort of contemporary) to more traditional - after he realised that's what the market wanted.

But, if what you're looking for isn't available locally, then you travel to get it - although you can now get something delivered via the internet. Sometimes you still need to be there in person.

 

[JournalInTime]

Yes there was, and still is if you look. But AT often settles to a particular style in an area because that's what customers want.

Yep. One thing that helps us here in Montréal is that there are really two cities here, culturally: the majority francophone city and the minority anglophone one, an expression of what we often call "the two solitudes" in Canada.

The influence on tango of the anglo minority equals or even somewhat exceeds that of the franco majority. That's because it's an Argentine dance, and there are far more hispanophones – especially Argentines – who speak English as a second language than who speak French. Moreover, the "tango teacher export market" in North America is dominated by the U.S.A., an English-speaking country. There are important exceptions, but most traveling maestros, and some immigrant teachers, offer their lessons in English and need a translator for French.

The number of dancers who are francophone far exceeds the number who are anglophone, however.

So, "the two solitudes" are equal-but-different cities here, as far as tango is concerned.

Then there's the geographical quirk of this city being on an island with rivers passing around it on all sides, creating natural borders in every sense. To the north and south are physically proximate but administratively, demographically, economically, and to some extent culturally distinct regions with high urbanization but their own tango communities. Teachers there teach, and their dancers dance, slightly different tango. If you know what to look for, you can identify Rive-Sud and Rive-Nord dancers as distinct from Montréal dancers (the most visible "tell" being floorcraft, because those regions are less dense and their dancers are used to more space).

Even discounting tango tourists, then, we get significant variations in style, probably comparable in some ways to those between barrios in BA.

 

[brujo]

For me personally, as someone who started tango in London, I absolutely had to travel in order to get that exposure. Whether you love or hate London tango, anyone who has danced extensively both within the city and outside it would have to acknowledge that it is very much its own thing.

Ease of travel is also assumed here. But there are a lot of people who are bound to their location. My Chinese friend in London didn’t have the ease of mobility simply due to visa issues, so someone who says that Istanbul or Barcelona or Germany was a simple flight away always had that privilege of travel.

I imagine that the amount of maestros traveling to the US in the next few years might decrease a bit due to how much harder visas seem to take and fewer people being able to access Argentina due to rising costs. Workshops and milongas are a bit expensive for a lot of people, and this will probably make tango more elitist. In my community we have free salsa practicas, but I somehow don’t see any free tango ones.

 

[JournalInTime]

I think you inevitably find teachers who promote a particular style, either because it's their personal preference, or what sells. I'm grateful our very local teacher (who we haven't used) has moved, for milongas, from his preference in music (sort of contemporary) to more traditional - after he realised that's what the market wanted.

But, if what you're looking for isn't available locally, then you travel to get it - although you can now get something delivered via the internet. Sometimes you still need to be there in person.

See my previous post for the long version: Due to "Montréal" really meaning {Montréal proper, Rive-Nord, Rive-Sud} × {anglophone, francophone}, we have a surprising diversity of preferences on the teaching side.

I didn't mention one further factor, which is that because francophone media are distinct from anglophone media, and firmly centered in Montréal (never say that to somebody from the city of Québec!), there's a lot more cultural pride in local TV, cinema, live shows, etc. This has given tango escenario a huge boost because it show ups a lot as a flashy, exotic thing in stage shows, talent broadcasts, and even street demos. You don't really see as much of that in Ontario (say, in Toronto) because the anglophone tango community there tends to piggyback on that of the U.S.A., meaning less concentrated local pride.

 

[opendoor]

..didn’t have the ease of mobility simply due to visa issues, so someone who says that Istanbul or Barcelona or Germany was a simple flight away always had that privilege of travel..

Thank you for pointing at it, I will work on inclusiveness!

 

[JournalInTime]

Thank you for pointing at it, I will work on inclusiveness!

This is a thing, too.

The fraction of people with a passport in the U.S.A. hovers at the 1/2 mark; in Canada, it's at the 2/3 mark. These figures skew toward high income – it's essentially the poorest half in the U.S.A. and poorest third in Canada who lack passports (not quite, but the figures are so close that it's scary). Tango being the sort of thing that takes disposable income even if you don't travel, you can see what that means for tango travel.

In the EU, it's effectively "everyone" for travel within the EU. You can see the implications of that, too. I'd be interested in hearing from more local dancers in the UK re: the effects of Brexit on travel for dance, though.

 

[Rabbit]

So you're suggesting that I might, too, would have a negative influence on London tango if I were to visit? There are cities people fly to specifically to dance tango: Berlin, Paris, Rome, Istanbul. London isn't really on that list.

"London tango" isn't a dance style, it's a complaint about the behaviour of people in milongas. Obviously, unsatisfactory milongas can be found in all large cities.

 

[JournalInTime]

"London tango" isn't a dance style, it's a complaint about the behaviour of people in milongas. Obviously, unsatisfactory milongas can be found in all large cities.

I laugh because "It isn't a style; it's a complaint." is funny. I cry a bit because if I do travel in the near future, it's likely to be to London, for reasons unrelated to tango (my life partner's reasons, actually).

 

[opendoor]

I laugh because "It isn't a style; it's a complaint." is funny. I cry a bit because if I do travel in the near future, it's likely to be to London, for reasons unrelated to tango (my life partner's reasons, actually).

And please let me know! I will be there.

 

[brujo]

I laugh because "It isn't a style; it's a complaint." is funny. I cry a bit because if I do travel in the near future, it's likely to be to London, for reasons unrelated to tango (my life partner's reasons, actually).

“Honey, the cheapest flights I could find all have a long long layover in Paris. Why don’t we make it a mini stopover”.

 

[opendoor]

"London tango" isn't a dance style, it's a complaint..

Back in the 90s, Londoners used to regularly dance at our milongas in Hamburg. But when Ryanair moved its hub, they forgot we used to be a suburb of London. And we actually loved the Londoners; they paid properly, they couldn't dance, but they quickly learned the codigos at least and behaved well until 2 a.m. Some would then go to the Reeperbahn (red-light district where the Beatles grew up), others would take the next flight home.

 

[Brummbaer]

the effects of Brexit on travel for dance

The first rule of being in the UK: Don't mention Brexit!

The 2nd is not to mix up English, Welsh, Scottish and N. Irish (or N. Irish with Eire). The former are all part of a [Dis]United Kingdom.

There are other things not to mention for a peaceful evening! (e.g. avoid flags).

Impact on travel - it used to be more that you joined those from other 3rd countries to queue for entry (and exit - you need that exit stamp!). Now, as nearly everyone in the world moves to e-gates and e-visas (ah, the immigration and refugee issues) perhaps it's becoming less of an impact - but we'll have to pay.

There should be an impact on non-nationals coming to the UK to teach. Many Argentinians, however, qualify for Spanish passports - which is in the EU, with 'exceptions' (maybe). I'd guess some work in the 'black economy' on a tourist visa. Taking live music to the EU has become prohibitively expensive - and I guess it's reciprocal. I understand some 'world music' events in the UK got cancelled because of immigration restrictions on performers.

There's also a massive difference between cultural support in the EU and UK (Some EU countries provide support).

The secondary impact is air travel prices. It still costs more to take a train to the EU than to fly. There's also a cost-of-living issue with prices - different than the 90's!

I suppose the major impact is personal. I used to feel 'European', but that got taken away. Whilst my heritage is mainly 'English', it's not really something with which I identify - or wish to promote.

Whilst many in the EU speak English (computer tech, education, etc), fewer UK citizens know any foreign language, and dialects of English can be difficult to understand. Many decades ago I had an interest in a girl from Glasgow. We decided our best common language was German. It helps, for acceptance, to have another language besides English - and to appreciate the culture.

if I do travel in the near future, it's likely to be to London

There's a website of London Milongas. Outside London, depending where you are, there are other sites which try to co-ordinate locally. No one could agree on a unified platform for the UK. Don't trust FB without checking!

If you can, get out of London. Anywhere! The further north or west the better. It can be very pleasant. AT may be popular, or sparse, or in a dead zone. Scotland (in places) is quite good. But don't expect easy travel. Trains may be cancelled, roads may be flooded or full of potholes, or congested, or collapsed - but it may be quicker than air travel within the UK.

 

[JournalInTime]

The 2nd is not to mix up English, Welsh, Scottish and N. Irish (or N. Irish with Eire). The former are all part of a [Dis]United Kingdom.

Fortunately, being a Canadian, I get the informal Commonwealth education on this issue.

It helps, for acceptance, to have another language besides English - and to appreciate the culture.

Last time I was in London, I actually found myself speaking French to serving staff because they were used to French tourists and did better forcing their book-learned French than deciphering my Canadian accent in English.

Trains may be cancelled, roads may be flooded or full of potholes, or congested, or collapsed - but it may be quicker than air travel within the UK.

Also last time around, I ran into trains cancelled for "fallen leaves on the rails." I cannot even pretend to grasp how that works. Here we run trains straight through anything under half a metre of snow.

 

[opendoor]

The first rule of being in the UK: Don't mention Brexit!

Why? I'll always rub salt in this wound. It primarily hurts us, so don't turn the tables.

..The 2nd is not to mix up English, Welsh, Scottish and N. Irish (or N. Irish with Eire)... (e.g. avoid flags).

I see here by far more flags than you've listed (click this link). 2:00 onwards, Manx, Shetland's and so on! So don't confuse regions with colonial structures!

 

[opendoor]

I consider Brexit a serious issue, instead!