NDCA Multi/Scholarship Qualifications

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lucia_l said:
I don't want to be in a situation where the only dance I can compete in is one where I will surely be in the bottom half.
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OTOH, any time you enter a competition, you have to be ready to accept that you might come in last -- especially if it's really thinly-contested. Some people take a poor result as a challenge to work harder.

Reminds me of a Cold War-era joke:
US and Soviet national teams play each other in a series of {sport}. The day after the final game, headlines are
NY Times: Soviets in second place
Pravda: US places second to last

:)
 
ralf said:
OTOH, any time you enter a competition, you have to be ready to accept that you might come in last -- especially if it's really thinly-contested. Some people take a poor result as a challenge to work harder.
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I think that happens more when the poor result is unexpected, or at least when a better result was actually possible.

Loved the Cold War joke, though!
 
ralf said:
OTOH, any time you enter a competition, you have to be ready to accept that you might come in last --
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Sure. But I'm describing a factor that comes into consideration before I decide to compete. If I decided not to enter, that's no money for the organizer. I don't mind being 2 out of 2. 10 out of 10.... not so much. And having the factors dictating what I can enter guarantee I will be 10 out of 10 means I won't want to enter.
 
fiesta0618 said:
As for Open vs Closed. Yes, I'd be fine eliminating Open categories below, well, Open. Two reasons for that.

First, as stated above, I compete to get feedback. At low levels, technique is the primary differentiator. Technique is easier to judge when everyone is doing a similar set of figures. Open routines are potentially a distraction from that.
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Pro/am open bronze/silver is kind of like how MIT has beginner/intermediate/advanced instead of bronze/silver/gold and allows the entire syllabus in each level. I like the idea of somewhat separating steps from proficiency.
 
lucia_l said:
Sure. But I'm describing a factor that comes into consideration before I decide to compete. If I decided not to enter, that's no money for the organizer. I don't mind being 2 out of 2. 10 out of 10.... not so much. And having the factors dictating what I can enter guarantee I will be 10 out of 10 means I won't want to enter.
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At collegiate comps, newcomer/bronze are well protected and beginner-friendly - typically people who've been dancing for several months.

I think in most events at a collegiate comp (or any very well-contested comps), no one really gets the feeling that they're last place. Take MIT, where an event might have 100 couples. If you don't make the second round, no big deal. You have plenty of company - there are 50 or so couples who also didn't make the cut.
lucia_l said:
I might consider doing this at Collegiate prices especially if the competition was in reasonable driving distance. I'd never pay NDCA prices for the crapshoot experience of dancing with someone from the TBA list!
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TBA can be quite fun. I met a guy who was doing his very first ballroom comp. On the day of, he connected with two followers across four styles, and even got some callbacks. It really is social dancing with prizes.

Northwestern's comp is in your area. :)
 
Yep. I'm going to look into Northwestern's comp .... when we are no longer on "stay at home". :)
 
I'm late to the party on this thread, but I've learned a lot based on everyone sharing their perspectives. Here's my 2 cents as an NDCA pro/am and am/am dancer.
  • AM/AM Perspective: NDCA events make little sense for AM/AMs as a competitive venue. Whenever I compete with my AM/AM partner at an NDCA event we are uncontested 99% of the time. We still do them because most of our friends do Pro/Am so it's a fun (and MUCH cheaper) way to attend an event with them. We have had better luck with the Chicago USA Dance event which brings lots of amateurs to compete against. I'm interested in checking out one of the collegiate events that @fiesta0618 mentions since it sounds like those might be a good fit.
  • PRO/AM Perspective: As a 43 year old male dancer my single dances are almost always uncontested so I struggle to see the point of them for my category besides the organizers/pros making money. I'm assuming they make more sense for the sex/age categories that are more populated. On the plus side they are a nice warm up for the real deal. And I agree that NDCA is mainly structured for Pro/Am since that's what pays the bills for pros and organizers and I'm fine with that except it's always tough when I have to write that check ;)
In terms of possible ways to restructure comps to make them better I always wonder if there is a way to put together a comp where the pros/organizers can get paid without it costing the equivalent of a European vacation. I feel like that would bring more people into the sport.
 
bry_dancer said:
As a 43 year old male dancer my single dances are almost always uncontested so I struggle to see the point of them for my category besides the organizers/pros making money.
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For me when I did pro-am, it was a way to get a video to see how I was progressing. That was the one thing that was good about NDCA for amateur competition as well.
 
Wow. I had no idea that was possible! I've been dancing mostly uncontested singles at NDCA comps for almost two years. And I thought I knew everything at this point ;). Just shows there is always more to learn and the value of this forum.

I wonder if there is a reason that my studio/pro never mentioned this to me? Anyway, thank you and I'll pursue it when we prepare for the next comp!
 
I finally got a chance to talk to my pro that likes some singles to get familiar with other pros (floor-craft, etc). I can respect that. Also, mistakes are inevitable in most case depending on how far you're pushing your limits so they help seek & hopefully destroy them. Pro's have their different opinions & I respect that.

My Pro says the NDCA rules trump the Organizer's & thinks there is one. I looked again & could not find any in 2020. Perhaps it was there before? In the Organizer's section?

Scholarship search....

*When scholarships are presented at NDCA events the terms of these scholarships should be clearly stated by the organizer in writing.

*A Pro/Am Student Competitor is permitted to enter Ballroom dance "Pro/Am Scholarship Events which offer monetary prizes. In this case, any prize money awarded belongs to the Pro./Am 4 II. DEFINITIONS 1 Student Competitor, not to the professional, and the Pro/Am Student Competitor may decide how 2 it is to be used.

*PRIZE MONEY: It is mandatory that in all events where cash purses and/or scholarships are offered, the organizer must state the amount in all advertisements as follows: a. General announcements require only an over-all amount to be stated. A breakdown by individual events shall be published on the competition website.

*Where an organizer offers prize money and/or scholarships at their event, full details of any and 4 all restrictions pertaining to those prizes and/or scholarships must be spelled out in the primary 5 information packets. Any potential reduction or non-payment in advertised awards due to 6 participation levels not being met must also be clearly stipulated in the primary advertising.

NDCA VEGAS/May 2020 for example:

*To qualify for Pro/Am Scholarship Events, a student must have a minimum of 5 different entries per each Scholarship Event and must have purchased a package. Scholarship Events and Multi Dance Events combine Ladies and Gentlemen. Multi Dance Events count as two entries. If Scholarships are uncontested, the organizer has the right to refuse the prize money. See “Rules and Regulations” for more details and requirements.*

If I understand that right, provided you purchase a package (which are usually overpriced), enter any 3 singles & 1 multi & your good to go for 3/6/9/10 dance scholarship?

IMO, it be good if NDCA had a rule so we don’t have so many cost/dance variations in our annual itinerary. I don't know what criteria Organizer's use but it's all over the map, some consistency would be nice.

I like Multi's have Gents/Ladies too, less chance for Gents being uncontested vs single dances.
 
Larinda said:
I never had men students willingly dance uncontested... even if that is how they were listed in the book. Your teacher is perfectly capable of going to the registrar and combining you with men in younger age categories, or with women in your age category or younger, or men and women in any proficiency above you. That is a TON of options to not dance uncontested.

The only dancer that can probably not find suitable competition if uncontested is Ladies A in Gold. They can't dance down in age against the youth, and they can't dance up in age against B, C, or Senior, probably have no Gentlemen A Gold to dance against... and they can't dance down against men or women silver or bronze.
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Here is what NDCA 2020 has to say about that, and the Organizer's have rules about gender competitions too..

*When an organizer combines age classifications (Pre-Teen I & II, Junior I & II or Senior I, II & III) competitors may dance up or down as follows: (1) Only Pre-Teen II age category competitors may dance up into the combined Junior age 45 category. (2) Combined Juniors may dance up into the combined Youth age category. (3) Combined Seniors may dance down into the adult age category. *

I can't find any other statements that allow dancing up/down but it seems the new rulebook pushes alot to Organizer's. I know in some past comps I've attended single & mulit's dances are same gender judged, Scholarships are the mixed. Now we have gender neutral, too, so we'll see what happens there? I'd rather be judged against other leads anyway.
 
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