New USAD Rules Eliminate "Novice Exception?"

Egoist: "IOW, your level is determined by your points unless USA Dance "feels" differently. How "objective"!"

No, not objective. The assumption is that most people who are dancing are basically honest, and not interested in sandbagging a competition just so they can say that they are winners. However, if you try to radically change your level, expect that the National Registrar will ask you why? Do you have any reasonable explanation why you shouldn't continue to dance at the same level you've been dancing? This is not really a change to the rules. Anyone can petition for proficiency reduction, but he/she would have to have good, understandable reasons for such a reduction to be granted. That is the same level of 'objectivity'.
 
It's not enough to assign someone to a level, with eligibility now determined by the sum of partner's points, they will also need to be assigned an effective number of points in the next lower level in order to determine if they can dance that with a less experienced partner.
 
Challenge on what basis?

IOW, your level is determined by your points unless USA Dance "feels" differently. How "objective"!

Why not make a conversion system or make actual criteria on what your "new" level ought to be?

It sounds like USA Dance will only challenge your level if you declare yourself a Bronze dancer when you have been placing consistently at the Silver level or higher, or some such thing. It does not sound very subjective to me. If your results clearly prove you to be a successful Silver or Gold dancer, then you should not be trying to compete at the Pre-Bronze or Bronze level. However, I do agree that a conversion system would be beneficial, especially to those who may not follow their points or the system as closely as others.
 
The potential unevenness you identified is why it takes 300 points to be excluded from a level.

If you normally attend comps which are small, you will accumulate fewer points by dancing in them. If there are usually 4 or fewer couples in your event, the most you can earn in a single event is 3 points. The same level couple dancing where the field is larger will most likely have a result with similar point levels. Couples who regularly win in small comps may not do so in larger comps. Couples who regularly win at either will point out in similar time frames. Couples who are better dancers will regularly place higher, earn more points, and be pointed out more quickly than couples who are just beginning, or who have really not mastered the proficiency level yet. How does this 'hurt' newer dancers? It gives them plenty of time to work at that level before being required to move up. Remember, there is no prohibition from moving up at anytime you feel ready to do so.

I agree that dancers are always able to dance up, but do dancers interpret a proficiency system as "lowest level" to dance, or as a "qualifying" system? From the collegiate scene, it seems more of the latter - that couples will not(or with hesitation) move up until they have "placed out" of the previous level. However, if the former, the new system would certainly increase the quality of dancing at each level - including bronze(or which ever for beginners). With higher quality dancing at the beginning level, it raises the barrier to entry for newcomers, and this is what I mean by "hurts" them. It seems that a better system would ease dancers into more competition, rather than a "linear" system like this. That is, make it easy for dancers to start in bronze, set low standards, and move people out of there quickly. As the levels progress, it becomes harder to place out(or "required out"). Those who stick with it to the highest level are already the 0.1% of those who stuck with it, so already demand more rigor and higher quality of dancing and competition.

As for the small/large region issue, although I don't have the empirical data to show this, the intuition is that regions of the countries have certain size comps(with variations between the comps), and that a region maybe the limits of how far competitors are willing to travel(on average). The boundary situation is where the region(Region A) has an average of semifinal, vs. a region(Region B) with an average of say a 1st round. The winner of the first region will get 12 points, while the winner of the larger region(say 4 rounds, 48 couples) will get 14 points, ceteris paribus. If we assume all dancers are equally capable of dancing well(quality is normally distributed amongst all competitors, and average quality for a level is the same), then beating 48 couples suggests the 1st placer will more likely beat the 1st placer who beat 12 couples.

It seems arbitrary to have a formula with a hard cut-off of semifinals especially when the number of competitors grow exponentially! Why not: POINT = total # of competitors in 1st round - placement? In the example above, a competitor in Region B can also get 12 points out of 48 couples by beating 12 couples, or placing #36 at the comp. Of course, competitors in Region A will most likely compete against the same people more frequently to get the same total points.

Of course, a good dancer will do well regardless of the competition, but on average at nationals, it may be that the competitors from larger regions(who do not dance up) will more likely do better than competitors from smaller regions. As a system, it seems to bias larger regions unless there is an implicit understanding that competitors from larger regions should also dance up.
 
Chris,

Since new dancers have to dance against more experienced dancers anyway, I still don't get the 'hurt' aspect of it. This is a sport in which it takes time, energy, commitment and determination to move ahead. Couples in any competition are not evenly matched for a number of reasons. Dancing a bit longer in a lower level is not a punishment; having a bit longer to dance at a lower level while gaining experience is a benefit to all couples. And as you yourself reminded others, this is not a point in system. You may move yourself up in proficiency level without waiting to point out.

After running multiple scenarios using different couples' actual results over the past couple of years and seeing how quickly or slowly they would have pointed out with the new system, a threshold of 300 seemed to give the most even results. It did not favor the new dancer or the experienced competitor over the other, and accommodated the vast differences in numbers of competitors from event to event as well as from comp to comp.

Your example would not place the couple in question out, but was it fair for them to be pointed out in only 5 outings? For many couples that's under 6 months of experience. This was one of the identified inequities of the old system; couples forced to move up without enough experience to allow them to make reasonable results in the newer, higher level.
 
Next Chris question:

Points earned in one proficiency level will be earned at double the rate in all lower proficiency levels in that age/style. So, in my example of placing 8th out of 12 couples in the Adult Novice Smooth, the individual members of that partnership will also earn8 points each in the Adult Bronze Smooth, the Adult Silver Smooth and the Adult Gold Smooth for the same result. So every event that you dance has ramifications at every level below the one you dance.

Should you choose to dance above the minimum level for which you are qualified, you will earn points more quickly in those levels below the one in which you dance.

Similarly, points will accrue across all age categories. So the points earned in Adult Novice Smooth will also be earned in SI, SII and SIII Novice Smooth. This is a restatement of the current policy which states that you cannot dance below your highest proficiency level in the lowest adult age category in which you may dance (which is always Adult).
 
Chris,

Since new dancers have to dance against more experienced dancers anyway, I still don't get the 'hurt' aspect of it. This is a sport in which it takes time, energy, commitment and determination to move ahead. Couples in any competition are not evenly matched for a number of reasons. Dancing a bit longer in a lower level is not a punishment; having a bit longer to dance at a lower level while gaining experience is a benefit to all couples. And as you yourself reminded others, this is not a point in system. You may move yourself up in proficiency level without waiting to point out.

I was helping out with an (unnamed) YCN region where bronze level consisted of newcomers(1st year/semester dancing) and those who have competed at that level for 8 years(never placed out because there were not enough competitions, or they did not compete much). Needless to say, the newcomers never got past 1st cut. Many got discouraged of their poor performance and quit. The "barrier" seemed to be if you have not danced for at least 4 years, you should not expect to may a cut. That really hurt the growth of competitive dancing in the region!
 
Are placements at Nationals given additional weight in this system? Under the old rules, if you won at nationals you were no longer considered eligible for that level, but I do not see that language in the new rule book. Thanks!
 
If a couple does not switch partners, they would have to win first place with a semi final more than 12 times to move up, correct? It can take years to even find 12 competitions with semi finals, let alone win them.
 
Tuanpe,

If we simply went with a system that didn't have a cut-off, the competitors who do have a first round situation could potentially point out by winning a single competition. Is that fair? Or the threshold level for moving up would have to be so high that those dancing in smaller competitions, or styles that attract fewer competitors could never point out. Is that fair?

This system is not perfect, but it does try to address leveling the playing field by making it achievable to point out no matter where you dance in similar time frames. Thus dancers who only have access to smaller comps, but dance well will move up the proficiency ladder in similar time frames to those who dance in larger comps. If anything, the larger competitions will add time to the process for those dancers; many people don't start making semis when they first dance at these levels where there are 1 rounds.

This is not a 'point-in' system, but it is designed to work that way for coaches who want to use it that way. A 'point-in' system was floated by a representative group of competitors, and almost universally objected to. The most common reason is that, having put in the time, money and effort to get to a competition over sometimes large distances, being able to dance in only one level was too restrictive.
 
Similarly, points will accrue across all age categories. So the points earned in Adult Novice Smooth will also be earned in SI, SII and SIII Novice Smooth. This is a restatement of the current policy which states that you cannot dance below your highest proficiency level in the lowest adult age category in which you may dance (which is always Adult).
How will this translate to younger dancers? Do points accumulated in junior mean anything in youth, or do youth points mean anything in adult?
 
Wyllo,

Placements at Nationals are not given any more weight than placement at any other tracked competition. It would be possible to dance the same level at Nationals twice and win twice under this system, but, assuming that Nationals is not the only comp the couple competes at, twice would be the limit.
 
OK, you gave the Adult to SrI, SrII point conversion example. What about Youth to Adult? Same thing? Are points earned in Youth also earned in Adult since Youths can dance up to Adult if they want to? And what is to stop a Junior II couple who dances and earns lots of points in Junior II Champ level to dance Adult pre-champ once they become Youth age? Do Junior II points also translate to Adult?
 

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