Not sure what to do next

[Miradamiranda]

Well, I see 90% of discussion is about men clothes. Is time to change. Guys, what is your experience with women breasts if you dance in close embrace? Openly, is easy to dance with flat-chested girls. Good contact, sharing of info, etc. If girls are wearing push-up bra, I start to have issues. Breasts are formed into two hard bumpers she is pushing against me. I prefere if she wears sport-bra, then I have connection over whole space of chest. Third cathegory are "gifted" ones (including my wife). It is not easy to lead thru mass of two airbags. Interesting thing is, size is not linked to close embrace preference. (sorry for little uncorect topic, I was bored by T-shirts)

Then, don’t even try to imagine what it’s like for us female followers to dance CE with female leaders of different heights…

You simply find a way to make it work.

Milongero bellies can work just fine as long as he’s not leaning backwards, which unfortunately too many do, due to their center of gravity.

 

[Bailango]

Well, I see 90% of discussion is about men clothes. Is time to change. Guys, what is your experience with women breasts if you dance in close embrace? Openly, is easy to dance with flat-chested girls. Good contact, sharing of info, etc. If girls are wearing push-up bra, I start to have issues. Breasts are formed into two hard bumpers she is pushing against me. I prefere if she wears sport-bra, then I have connection over whole space of chest. Third cathegory are "gifted" ones (including my wife). It is not easy to lead thru mass of two airbags. Interesting thing is, size is not linked to close embrace preference. (sorry for little uncorect topic, I was bored by T-shirts

Don’t sound this is about dressing nor OP’s issue. It needs a new thread of its own

 

[Rabbit]

I'm not sure why people have such difficulties with the location of contact points in CE. I don't lead by trying to push the follower around with my chest, I lead by activating muscles so that the follower mirrors. In this method it doesn't matter exactly where the contact point is so height and breast size aren't a problem.

 

[opendoor]

..not sure why people have such difficulties with the location of contact points in CE..

This is only a problem for bad dancers. You know my constant provocation: "Lean is an illusion". And so it's also true that contact points are completely unnecessary.

 

[Brummbaer]

I'm not sure why people have such difficulties with the location of contact points in CE.

Which contact points?

The situation, which is probably relevent to the OP, is that the various teaching descriptions of CE are never sufficiently detailed and, in any case, only apply to one partnership. You learn over time with different dance partners - even within a tanda.

 

[Tango Distance]

• Something I like about beach culture is it is hard to tell who is rich and who isn't. FWIW, I have trouble telling who is rich and who isn't by their attire at a milonga.

making snide remarks. Dress codes that exclude street-legal attire strike me as "ill-mannered ways" that enjoy false legitimacy by dint of headcount – the many bullying the few, as it were – notably when respecting the code is costly and people are excluded as much for being unable to afford to meet it as for being unwilling to meet it.

My biggest issue with dress codes is, as I said, the rudeness they bring out in others. When someone says something like, "Look at how they're dressed. They have no respect!", what I hear is the critic saying, "I have no respect for others." Particularly when the dress code they prefer would cost the object of their criticism more than they can afford. There are of course critics who feel that economics are a good reason to exclude someone, but (1) that's classist, totally against my values, and cause never to speak to that person again

• Have you actually heard things like that, or other snide remarks? I'm mortified if you have! FWIW, I don't recall ever hearing negative comments like that at a milonga. I do sometimes hear compliments on attire.
• I haven't heard rudeness related to a dress code. FWIW several milongas say "No Levis or denim pants" or something like that. What I do hear is beginners asking "What is the dress code?" They want to blend in and not stand out. Maybe a "dress code" is a good thing used this way?
• I have never heard someone comment on someone's economic status in an exclusionary way. I have had several people volunteer they cannot afford to go to Bueno Aires, or go to an upcoming workshop, but that doesn't seem to hurt their ability to get dances.
• I don't know if my dear wife would want me to do detailed comments on the price of her tango dresses, but let's just say cost is not a barrier to looking nice at a milonga... It's the sheer quantity of dresses and shoes that drives the price up.

what I was really getting at was how my partners' look affects my success with inviting other partners. In essence, being judged – regardless of my look – not for me, but for my partners, and not even for their skill, but for their appearance. I fail to see how "willing to dance with someone not in conservative evening dress" reflects on me in the slightest . . .

I'll agree that there seems to be a group that dances with the best dressed and best dance skills followers. I don't know of a case where I have seen someone dance a lot because of their attire (which is a different thing than college age good looks).

I have a fundamental issue with what I call "social contagion" like this.

Attire… some people try to blend in as if tango clothes are a uniform and you won’t be taken seriously if you don’t look the part.

A few random thoughts:

• I think dresses with a tail (back or side) look really neat and can add visual flair to the dance steps.
• Big holes in the back: I've had a hand dive into such holes by accident. No one was upset and just laughed it off, but I was mortified!
• Harem pants: It looks to me like they are just begging to catch a heel and cause a fall (similar to long dresses). Also, they can hide some of the beauty of the dance (which is OK!), but could work against you a bit if you are looking to show off. I had an instructor with harem pants showing us leg and knee angles, all I saw was a gently flapping cloth cylinder! I actually mentioned this to her, and she rolled them up for the rest of the lessons that day (festival).
• I asked AI image generators what could happen with parachute pants, tango, a heel catching, and starting to fall. It's horrifying. You have been warned.

 

[JournalInTime]

I have trouble telling who is rich and who isn't by their attire at a milonga.

I do not. There are women with whom I like to dance who are rich. There are women with whom I like to dance who are not. The sartorial divide is vast. The technical divide doesn't exist . . . you'd think that those with cash would have the means to hire the best teachers and devote time to dance, but you'd be wrong.

Have you actually heard things like that, or other snide remarks?

Unfortunately I have . . . and as recently as yesterday afternoon. It's possible that I live in an unusually classist city, though.

It's the sheer quantity of dresses and shoes that drives the price up.

To put it on the table: I know women who have ONE "dance dress" and ONE pair of shoes. They are good dancers, but they don't have the means to convey this through clothing.

Which said, my life and dance partner is a director of an organization that can afford to pay her more than twice what I earn, and her discretionary budget at work has six zeroes, so this isn't an issue for her . . . she has a favorite tango boutique, the owner has her sizes on file, etc. I am the poor one, and I make an effort to understand that someone in an ordinary non-tango outfit might be an excellent dancer with a not-so-great job like mine.

Harem pants: It looks to me like they are just begging to catch a heel and cause a fall (similar to long dresses).

Agreed. I have caught several partners on their way to the floor due to such outfits. It's good for me and them that I have genes that have given me unusual functional muscle mass despite me avoiding gyms like the plague. (Just last night, a favorite partner said, "Oh, you have biceps. Oh, my.")

Also, they can hide some of the beauty of the dance (which is OK!)

Less sure of this. Lots of pros and widely admired followers hide their leg posture under fabric. Normally, though, they choose tango skirts/dresses and not pantaloons.

 

[Miradamiranda]

If I’m going to a milonga where I know beforehand that there’ll be the types of dancers, the music, and the space for moves that allow my heels to go any higher than my calves, I avoid long skirts where I can get caught. My heels are a bit flared and not stilettos.

Flowing long material hides bad leg posture for sure, and in tight space very traditional settings, small steps make it difficult to do beautiful steps. If I’m wearing something that doesn’t hide my legs and there’s the space allowing it, both for looks and for the feel of it, there’s nothing like taking long angled steps with the illusion of a 45°+ lean, pushing off well from the ground with the other so I feel light as a feather for my partner, and where it both feels and looks like my leg starts already at the lowest rib. For that, I prefer wearing not too loose pants or even leggings under a short cocktail dress, it shows those moves well and doesn’t hinder movement. The young girls can pull off miniskirts in my opinion, but I definitely have seen mature traditionalist women snicker at some dresses being too short for tango. I don’t have the legs I used to have, so I mostly cover up. I know a couple of women in my age group +10 years who have spent a fortune on keeping up the appearance of their legs (it’s expensive to remove spider veins and varicose veins). They wear otherwise too-short dresses because they can, and want to show them off - a status symbol, to get more dances?
Most of the stretchy fabric that many dresses are made from tends to ride up when you take long steps (believe me, I’ve learned the hard way!), especially if you have a few curves. So length and flow is practical for those reasons.

For guys’ attire, I’ve often heard the remark that those guys who overly casually go to milongas in old jeans and a faded t-shirt, are disrespectful of the women who spend hours getting ready and who spend fortunes on their tango closet. Making the effort for what is hopefully a special night and then sitting most of the evening is such a downer. The guys who can casually walk in from the street and decide they won’t stay for more than a couple of tandas because everything might not be just perfect, have a lot less at stake in the effort-to-reward equation.

 

[Miradamiranda]

One more thing, about guys’ shirts.
A reason it’s more comfortable to dance with guys who are only slightly taller than me to much shorter than me has to do with the air being better up here. If my nose is below the guy’s shoulder, he better not have pulled a shirt out from the back of a musty dusty closet (especially right after corona that was an issue, clean shirts that hadn’t been used in a while had that smell). Or their shirts might be laundered in perfumed detergent or they themselves have put on extra perfume.
Unfortunately some of my regular tall guys have these tendencies. I only have the urge to cough or I get watery eyes and a scratchy throat with certain partners. When you basically hold your breath the whole song trying not to cough, it’s hard to concentrate and enjoy the dance.

 

[Brummbaer]

One more thing, about guys’ shirts.
A reason it’s more comfortable to dance with guys who are only slightly taller than me to much shorter than me has to do with the air being better up here. If my nose is below the guy’s shoulder, he better not have pulled a shirt out from the back of a musty dusty closet (especially right after corona that was an issue, clean shirts that hadn’t been used in a while had that smell). Or their shirts might be laundered in perfumed detergent or they themselves have put on extra perfume.
Unfortunately some of my regular tall guys have these tendencies. I only have the urge to cough or I get watery eyes and a scratchy throat with certain partners. When you basically hold your breath the whole song trying not to cough, it’s hard to concentrate and enjoy the dance.

Yep. Similar reaction to hair spray and some perfumes (especially those that leave a vapour trail, and maybe dead flies, in their wake) And then there are those who still smoke, or have been in a smoking environment.

 

[tangoing]

For guys’ attire, I’ve often heard the remark that those guys who overly casually go to milongas in old jeans and a faded t-shirt, are disrespectful of the women who spend hours getting ready and who spend fortunes on their tango closet. Making the effort for what is hopefully a special night and then sitting most of the evening is such a downer. The guys who can casually walk in from the street and decide they won’t stay for more than a couple of tandas because everything might not be just perfect, have a lot less at stake in the effort-to-reward equation.

I mean this is true for outside of tango too, usually it takes me (and other guys) less than 10-20 minutes to get ready to go to work or dress up for a night out.

 

[pianistamediano]

For guys’ attire, I’ve often heard the remark that those guys who overly casually go to milongas in old jeans and a faded t-shirt, are disrespectful of the women who spend hours getting ready and who spend fortunes on their tango closet. Making the effort for what is hopefully a special night and then sitting most of the evening is such a downer. The guys who can casually walk in from the street and decide they won’t stay for more than a couple of tandas because everything might not be just perfect, have a lot less at stake in the effort-to-reward equation.

It's pretty ridiculous that those women are blaming men for the consequences of their own decisions.

 

[opendoor]

..dead flies, in their wake..

I usually end a tanda with never-ending bouts of sneezing or an asthma attack if followers have dogs, cats, horses, mice, or rabbits as pets. I can also sniff out micrograms of fungal spores.

 

[opendoor]

..dead flies, in their wake..

I usually end a tanda with never-ending bouts of sneezing or an asthma attack if followers have dogs, cats, horses, mice, or rabbits as pets. I can also sniff out femtograms of fungal spores.

 

[itwillhappen]

Well, I see 90% of discussion is about men clothes. Is time to change. Guys, what is your experience with women breasts if you dance in close embrace?

I often heared complaints that women get more often invited when they dress to emphasize their figure, especially their breasts and thighs.
This might provide some advice on what to do next here — but I'm not going to take on that task!