I'd say that the musical idea of the song builds balanced phrases by putting together two similar but not identical musical ideas in a 4+4 form, and then supplying a corresponding 4+4 reply. Then a new larger phrase (having the same basic structure) begins: (4+4) + (4+4). So the longer musical ideas are really a '16-count'. It troubles me to watch his opening, in that in apparent haste to get going, he leads off in the middle of that first phrase, rather than waiting for the beginning of the second phrase. Effectively, he moved off on '9', and it would have been better if he hadn't ...
Not touchy feely
- Thread starter Tango Distance
- Start date
That should have been two OR four beats ...
tangobro
Active Member
Gabriel Misse may not be the best example. In his classes & workshops he has been adamantly opposed to the idea of counting the beats within the music. He literally grew up in the milongas, with heavy family involvement with tango and says the milongueros never talked about counting. He does however talk about dancing to the musical phrases based on how you feel them.
I wouldn't advocate counting, either, unless it is the only way to begin to find the phrase structure that should be easy enough to hear. But if that performance is a typical example of him dancing the phrases as he feels them, then arguably he doesn't feel them very well ...
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Tango Distance Tries Blues, "Gets" Close Embrace, Regresses a Little Bit, and then Tries Contra a 2nd Time
DW and I tried Blues dancing. Apparently even DW has her limits. She thinks Tango close embrace is great, but thinks Blues close embrace is too close, specifically that the offset feet thing gives opportunity for some mutual leg grinding. We have observed some people do this on the dance floor. OK, we have it worked out. We won't switch partners, so she isn't uncomfortable. How's that for role reversal?
The Blues lesson starts and it is all fun and games for all of about 2 minutes. Then, <insert dramatic music> history repeats itself. The instructor yells to switch partners, and off goes DW, just like at the start of this thread 9 months ago! The big change was I actually weathered it fine, just like a normal dancer. The class kept a respectful distance, so there was no close embrace or grinding worries.
For the actual Blues dance part, we didn't switch partners. DW did see some some folks grinding, so she was glad to stick with me. We did the Blues version of close embrace. I was in dance heaven. I felt one with the music and DW and it was like the music was driving the (nothing fancy) steps without really having to think about it. I think I now better understand the raves about how wonderful Tango close embrace is, if it is anything like that.
I did mentally regress a little bit. I tell DW I'd like to do the Blues thing with some regularity and with no partner switching. I ask her if we could do a Tango Milonga some time with no partner switching. After I assure her I don't intend to do that permanently, just as a special thing, she agrees. I'm thinking maybe we'd do that for my birthday. Yes, I know you non-BA tangueros out there think I'm crazy! (The BA ones probably think I'm crazy as well!)
Later, I mentally take a step back, and realize I'm slipping back a little bit to the Tango Distance of old. I'm a little surprised as I actually do now enjoy and look forward to open embrace dances with Tango friends besides DW. I thought once I was past the hump of switching partners it would be coasting downhill. While I can see I have come a long way, I also see I could lose momentum. Maybe it is time to set the next goals since I have accomplished the short term goals.
We did Contra dancing again after the Blues event. The first time, I got asked to dance once, and asked someone other than DW once. I wound up sitting out a few songs. I made lots of mistakes, but it was still fun.
The second time was completely different. The caller made suggestions to make it "flirty," such as eye contact and passing close. I thought it might make it more fun for the ladies if I employed her suggestions. I'm not sure why on a second thing. Maybe it was I did better with a little experience. Maybe it was eye contact. Maybe I was smiling more. Maybe it was letting hands slowly slip apart rather than letting go as soon as possible like a hot potato. Anyway, not sure what it was, but I would take 2 steps after a song ended and a lady would run up to me and ask to do the next dance. I felt like a rock star of Contra dancing. I did every song and lots of partner switching.
The night was great fun. It was an interesting contrast to the Blues night. Instead of just flowing and the outside world seeming to go away, it was the joy of motion. I think my Tango enjoyment is the joy of motion thing like in molinettes and sacadas in open embrace. Close embrace doesn't quite flow well enough for DW and I (yet!) that it just happens smoothly to the music.
The other factor might be the music. Blues seems to be easier to dance to for me. It is slower, I understand the words, and have more experience with it.
Goals: Listen to some Tango music daily. Go ahead and do the close embrace class when it comes up. Chase that wonderful feeling I had in Blues dancing, but also in close embrace Tango with DW. Feel free to suggest other goals for me!
DW and I tried Blues dancing. Apparently even DW has her limits. She thinks Tango close embrace is great, but thinks Blues close embrace is too close, specifically that the offset feet thing gives opportunity for some mutual leg grinding. We have observed some people do this on the dance floor. OK, we have it worked out. We won't switch partners, so she isn't uncomfortable. How's that for role reversal?
The Blues lesson starts and it is all fun and games for all of about 2 minutes. Then, <insert dramatic music> history repeats itself. The instructor yells to switch partners, and off goes DW, just like at the start of this thread 9 months ago! The big change was I actually weathered it fine, just like a normal dancer. The class kept a respectful distance, so there was no close embrace or grinding worries.
For the actual Blues dance part, we didn't switch partners. DW did see some some folks grinding, so she was glad to stick with me. We did the Blues version of close embrace. I was in dance heaven. I felt one with the music and DW and it was like the music was driving the (nothing fancy) steps without really having to think about it. I think I now better understand the raves about how wonderful Tango close embrace is, if it is anything like that.
I did mentally regress a little bit. I tell DW I'd like to do the Blues thing with some regularity and with no partner switching. I ask her if we could do a Tango Milonga some time with no partner switching. After I assure her I don't intend to do that permanently, just as a special thing, she agrees. I'm thinking maybe we'd do that for my birthday. Yes, I know you non-BA tangueros out there think I'm crazy! (The BA ones probably think I'm crazy as well!)
Later, I mentally take a step back, and realize I'm slipping back a little bit to the Tango Distance of old. I'm a little surprised as I actually do now enjoy and look forward to open embrace dances with Tango friends besides DW. I thought once I was past the hump of switching partners it would be coasting downhill. While I can see I have come a long way, I also see I could lose momentum. Maybe it is time to set the next goals since I have accomplished the short term goals.
We did Contra dancing again after the Blues event. The first time, I got asked to dance once, and asked someone other than DW once. I wound up sitting out a few songs. I made lots of mistakes, but it was still fun.
The second time was completely different. The caller made suggestions to make it "flirty," such as eye contact and passing close. I thought it might make it more fun for the ladies if I employed her suggestions. I'm not sure why on a second thing. Maybe it was I did better with a little experience. Maybe it was eye contact. Maybe I was smiling more. Maybe it was letting hands slowly slip apart rather than letting go as soon as possible like a hot potato. Anyway, not sure what it was, but I would take 2 steps after a song ended and a lady would run up to me and ask to do the next dance. I felt like a rock star of Contra dancing. I did every song and lots of partner switching.
The night was great fun. It was an interesting contrast to the Blues night. Instead of just flowing and the outside world seeming to go away, it was the joy of motion. I think my Tango enjoyment is the joy of motion thing like in molinettes and sacadas in open embrace. Close embrace doesn't quite flow well enough for DW and I (yet!) that it just happens smoothly to the music.
The other factor might be the music. Blues seems to be easier to dance to for me. It is slower, I understand the words, and have more experience with it.
Goals: Listen to some Tango music daily. Go ahead and do the close embrace class when it comes up. Chase that wonderful feeling I had in Blues dancing, but also in close embrace Tango with DW. Feel free to suggest other goals for me!
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Tango Distance Makes a Guy Unhappy by Dancing with his Lady
It certainly wasn't my intent! I saw a newbie couple at a practica. I asked a female classmate friend to go with me and offer to switch, that way both of them would have someone to practice with. If they said no, they would see I had someone to practice with and not need to feel bad that way. I asked if they were both OK with switching partners and if they would like to switch. I thought everyone was good with it... The lady jumped right up, and off we went. Her husband practiced with my classmate. I basked in the glow that I had done a Tango good deed. After the couple left, my classmate said the guy was quite unhappy, that he didn't want to switch, and wasn't happy his wife took off on him like that. Wow, deja vu all over again, that was me a few months ago! I can't believe I missed that he didn't want to!
It certainly wasn't my intent! I saw a newbie couple at a practica. I asked a female classmate friend to go with me and offer to switch, that way both of them would have someone to practice with. If they said no, they would see I had someone to practice with and not need to feel bad that way. I asked if they were both OK with switching partners and if they would like to switch. I thought everyone was good with it... The lady jumped right up, and off we went. Her husband practiced with my classmate. I basked in the glow that I had done a Tango good deed. After the couple left, my classmate said the guy was quite unhappy, that he didn't want to switch, and wasn't happy his wife took off on him like that. Wow, deja vu all over again, that was me a few months ago! I can't believe I missed that he didn't want to!
newbie
Well-Known Member
Next time, leave the newbies alone.
Gina Tangoes
New Member
You should maybe try Cèilidh, it's a lot less touchey-feeley than Tangoes... anyway good luck whatever you choose to do!
Honestly I don't tolerate this kind of beta whining from males, I'm surprised she puts up with it
Different people like (and can tolerate) different things.Honestly I don't tolerate this kind of beta whining from males, I'm surprised she puts up with it
This definitely applies to tango, BTW. When someone tells me that all women like "whatever they are preaching about", what it usually means is that's what they like.
Gina Tangoes
New Member
Oh totally, I completely understand some women love their guys to be a bit insecure! I'm just saying for me it kills those tangoe tingles
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
Many thanks. I'm sure we'll keep doing mostly Tango and some Contra and Blues for now. I don't think we have any Ceilidh in my area but I'll keep a look out for it. BTW DW didn't want to pursue Salsa, though I thought it was fun the one time I tried it.Gina Tangoes said:You should maybe try Cèilidh, it's a lot less touchey-feeley than Tangoes... anyway good luck whatever you choose to do!
I think many males need some time (myself included). I noticed in my studio the majority of couples don't switch in the 1st level beginner's class, but almost everyone switches in the 2nd and higher level classes (including those couples that didn't switch before). I have also seen switching couples have the guy drop out of the class 1/2 way. So my humble opinion is ladies stand by your man if he doesn't want to switch, but hit him up with the idea in the 2nd class. DW was nice enough to provide a "safety net" for me and said any time I wanted to stop switching she would honor that.Gina Tangoes said:Honestly I don't tolerate this kind of beta whining from males, I'm surprised she puts up with it
DW had an insight I don't recall encountering before. She said women have a bigger motive for wanting to switch partners, that's a way to get variety. In contrast a leader can introduce variety literally at any step, so he doesn't need as much to switch partners for variety.
Fortunately for me DW, the other ladies, instructors, and folks here have been super nice about my foibles. Hopefully now I am not the "Tango Tingle Killer" I was in my early Tango days!Gina Tangoes said:Oh totally, I completely understand some women love their guys to be a bit insecure! I'm just saying for me it kills those tangoe tingles
Quick TD story: I had a lady at a practica try several times to get me to do close embrace... She actually went as far as saying open embrace was hurting her! I thought only men said things like that!
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
... a step back!Mladenac said:Next step is ...
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
A lady in my class complained to the instructor that guys were doing close embrace with her at Milongas, but she didn't like that and wanted to do open embrace. It was nice to find a kindred spirit.
New Year's Eve DW and I went to see a friend's band play. I'm sure DW and I were the only ones there with any dance lessons. Learning some Tango has taken some of the fun out of doing typical night club style of dancing, it's not Tango! We did Tango about 1/2 the time, other revelers seemed to like it. It was a great opportunity to do some "no hands" Tango, too. That way we blended in a bit better but still did Tango steps. I muddled through some CE, too. We didn't switch partners (for that matter, I don't think anyone there did).
I have done one year of Tango now. Tango has changed me for the better a couple of more ways I don't think I have discussed yet. One way is I think I'm getting better at reading body language because of doing Mirada/Cabeceo. Another is I'm feeling more empathy for other dancers. Early in 2015, I would read a sad story here at DF with as much emotion as reading a news story. Ladies complaining to DW that I wasn't dancing with them? Yeah, whatever, I have my own problems! Now that I have started plugging into Tango more fully, I notice and feel bad for her if I see a lady leave early with no or nearly no dances, and make a mental note to try to catch her early next Milonga. Likewise, a recent post here on DF about not getting dances was sad in a more poignant way for me than it would have been a year ago. I think that's because Tango has grown from something I enjoyed with only DW to something I enjoy more broadly, so I see better now how not Tangoing due to not getting asked is missing out on fun.
My 2016 calendar has a Tango workshop penciled in that promotes close embrace. Wish me luck!
New Year's Eve DW and I went to see a friend's band play. I'm sure DW and I were the only ones there with any dance lessons. Learning some Tango has taken some of the fun out of doing typical night club style of dancing, it's not Tango! We did Tango about 1/2 the time, other revelers seemed to like it. It was a great opportunity to do some "no hands" Tango, too. That way we blended in a bit better but still did Tango steps. I muddled through some CE, too. We didn't switch partners (for that matter, I don't think anyone there did).
I have done one year of Tango now. Tango has changed me for the better a couple of more ways I don't think I have discussed yet. One way is I think I'm getting better at reading body language because of doing Mirada/Cabeceo. Another is I'm feeling more empathy for other dancers. Early in 2015, I would read a sad story here at DF with as much emotion as reading a news story. Ladies complaining to DW that I wasn't dancing with them? Yeah, whatever, I have my own problems! Now that I have started plugging into Tango more fully, I notice and feel bad for her if I see a lady leave early with no or nearly no dances, and make a mental note to try to catch her early next Milonga. Likewise, a recent post here on DF about not getting dances was sad in a more poignant way for me than it would have been a year ago. I think that's because Tango has grown from something I enjoyed with only DW to something I enjoy more broadly, so I see better now how not Tangoing due to not getting asked is missing out on fun.
My 2016 calendar has a Tango workshop penciled in that promotes close embrace. Wish me luck!