Not touchy feely

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Sit out a tanda or two. Watch the floor. Watch women dance. Observe your reactions:
Boy they're hopeless. The poor <insert composer name for the current tanda> did not deserve this.

Who catches your attention immediately? In what way?
Uh oh, this woman dances with the teacher. He invited her either because she's a newcomer here or because she's skilled. Let's see. Ok, she's new here.

What makes you stop and watch for a while?
Boy, why am I looking at this? Now it's the variation and they're dancing the same way as they did during the adagio. And also during the theme by the way.

Who do you enjoy to look at more? Why?
Hey this one is cool, at least one follower who does not place her left arm diagonally in the back of the leader.

Does anyone in particular make you want to approach them, to know them a little better?
Hey a couple of touring teachers from BsAs! Let's me ask them if they will do a demo somewhere this week.

Very well. It shows that you are being judgmental almost that entire time.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

There are certain leads whom I dance one tanda with almost everytime I see them at a milonga or practica. It is pretty much assumed we will dance one tanda. And of course we dance with other people the rest of the evening. So if I happen to be the second choice for a particular tanda with this person, it changes nothing. Because I know that at some point in the evening we will have "our tanda". And if our tanda occurs right after someone else turns him down it means neither more or less than if it occurs when he asks me first. We all switch partners all evening anyways, so if I am asked second occasionally I don't worry about it. I know that I am on his list of dance partners either way. Both me and other woman are on the list and the order of him asking us doesn't mean much. I don't assume because he asked someone else first that that woman is more of a priority than I am. It just happens to be how the chips fell at that moment.

Of course, we do not relate to close friends/our tango sweethearts and strangers/remote acquaintances in the same way.

 

[newbie]

Very well. It shows that you are being judgmental almost that entire time.

Happy to know that I did very well. And what is the derived algorithm from this experiment?

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Happy to know that I did very well. And what is the derived algorithm from this experiment?

I proposed the experiment to the topic starter for him to explore certain aspects of his current situation.
You applied it to yourself, and it looks like, based upon the process, you made a decision who to dance with, and in what priority. No?

 

[Krys]

Happy to know that I did very well. And what is the derived algorithm from this experiment?

Dance with followers who do not place her left arm diagonally in the back of the leader ? ;-)

 

[newbie]

Dance with followers who do not place her left arm diagonally in the back of the leader ? ;-)

Yes! So glad I completed this experiment.

 

[Juniper Ivy]

Help me out here! ... But in between tandas, especially when there is an excess of females, which "unmeasurable qualities" are the touchy-feely-challenged Tango Distance to use? When not dancing with DW, I generally try to ask new people, class mates, and people I know -- all quantifiable things. My wife often encourages me to ask the most beautiful women present (evidenced by saying things like "Ask that beautiful lady there.") -- as a man I would understand that coming from another male, but am not sure what to think of it from DW.

I think for DW more tandas = more fun. For myself I don't make a big push that way, but the overall trend is I have been dancing more and more tandas as I continue to make more Tango friends.

Excluding DW, aren't there some ladies you enjoy dancing with more than others? I enjoy dancing when the lead has a strong frame and I can easily tell what he is leading, when I feel we have a good connection and also the dance is not repetitive and when it fits well with the music. When it is smooth and without awkward moments of disconnection. Honestly the way the man looks isn't that important. But I would prefer someone who is complimentary and appreciative of my dancing because it makes me feel relaxed and comfortable.

Beyond that, I think it is commendable to ask new people and women who are stuck sitting out a lot of tandas. And of course you will dance with your friends.

When DW suggested you ask that beautiful woman to dance, maybe she was just trying to be encouraging of you to reach out to new people?

 

[Juniper Ivy]

Four tandas of four tangos, that's probably more than one half of your overall dancing time in a 2-hour evening.. Boring.

Boring? Not at all! Because my partner is a very good dancer who is also a professional musician who hears the music very well, so every dance is fun and unique. Plus since I have danced with him so much I am comfortable and familiar with the way he moves and it is easier for me to follow him. And we can work on advanced steps together that take a lot of extra practice. So it is fun to have a regular dance partner. It adds an extra depth to dancing that I don't have with anyone else. Also I often go out dancing without him, so he isn't always there. But no it isn't boring.

And ... Our tandas are usually 3 songs long. I recently attended a 2 hour practica and there were 11 tandas.

 

[Tango Distance]

Excluding DW, aren't there some ladies you enjoy dancing with more than others? ...

That is certainly true. BTW I'm pretty easy to please, if the lady can follow basic steps and seems to be enjoying the dance that's great by me! BTW I'm impressed how many steps a 1st day newbie can follow. Beyond that, there are some ladies where things seem to effortlessly flow, and they seem very grateful. The new twist on things LotV was suggesting was to watch ladies dance as a basis for deciding whom to ask. It seems so obvious but I have not been doing that -- it has been based on past experience or a blind ask (which has actually worked well, but I see LotV's point to try for good dance feelings rather than be strictly algorithmic.).

... When DW suggested you ask that beautiful woman to dance, maybe she was just trying to be encouraging of you to reach out to new people?

That's my best guess, that she is saying that as a bribe of sorts to get me out there. Imagine this, when I ask her about such things she doesn't answer with a detailed algorithm! Don't worry, folks, I have only asked her "algorithm" questions a handful of times in the last year!

I realize Newbie was likely trolling a bit with his response, but I think that is the algorithm some (a very small number) of people use in my area. They'll only dance with the upper percentiles of the leads present and refuse anyone lower, even with a shortage of men and that it means they sit most of the night.

 

[RiseNFall]

BTW I'm impressed how many steps a 1st day newbie can follow. Beyond that, there are some ladies where things seem to effortlessly flow, and they seem very grateful.

That means that you are leading well!! Congratulations!

 

[Tango Distance]

Aw shucks, thanks. I have to give some credit to my instructors. The male instructor will grab a newbie and do amazing things, showing it is possible. He'll point out things you can do with newbs, or plan B if they can't follow something. I also wonder if women have genes for following -- I know for sure I don't have genes for leading, that has been acquired knowledge and required a lot of practice on my part!

That means that you are leading well!! Congratulations!

 

[Blue Two]

So maybe I should ask the question differently, how many Tandas would you let your spouse sit out before asking them to dance? Answers as a function of the number of male vs. female attendees would be great.

TD, this is what I do for what it's worth:

1. If my wife asks me to dance (verbally, no cabeceo needed), I always accept.
2. Men cabeceo her frequently. She accepts only if she knows he is a good dancer from past experience, or (when unknown) if she has seen him dance exceptionally well earlier in the evening. She almost never actively initiates. This gives her a chance to dance with other men for a change (and remind herself that it's never as good as dancing with me).
3. If women who know us socially ask me to dance verbally, I accept, as it would be awkward not to. Women are more sensitive to rejection in general, as they are less inclined to initiate in the first place, so to avoid any bad feelings I accept with good grace.
4. When women attempt to cabeceo me, I pretend not to notice.
5. The above generally gets me more than enough time on the dance floor (let's say 6-10 tandas per night, which is plenty for a pastime that is not core to my existence). If I feel I need more, then I just stop going to milongas and do classes instead, where there is constant dancing without the rest breaks; but frankly, it's usually not necessary.

Hope this helps.

-Blue Two

 

[Angel HI]

Forgive me if I'm coming in late, and missing something, but I find this post very odd, particularly.....

Men cabeceo her frequently. She accepts only if she knows he is a good dancer from past experience, or (when unknown) if she has seen him dance exceptionally well earlier in the evening.

We were at a milonga in Dallas last year, and one of the amazing and wonderful things about it was how the most advanced ladies consistently accepted not dances, but tandas from purely rank beginners. This continued all night long, and they did so consistently with smile and grace. And, .....

When women attempt to cabeceo me, I pretend not to notice.

Why?

 

[Blue Two]

Angel,

Beginners are essential to the continuity of a community and I agree that they should be encouraged as much as possible.

However there is a difference between a beginner and someone who has been dancing 10+ years and still has terrible, presumably by now incorrigible habits. Unfortunately the society where we currently live has plenty of the latter and very few if any actual beginners.

To take just one example, last year my wife went to a ladies' technique masterclass, and there was a woman there who was completely off her balance even in stockinged feet. To milongas, she wears four-inch women's dance shoes. And she's been part of the community for as long as we can remember... she probably actually started tango before we did.

Hope this allays any puzzlement on your part!

-Blue Two

 

[Tango Distance]

Thanks Blue Two, it's good to know I'm not alone. I have generally been ignoring Mirada/Cabeceo. Part of it is a body language thing (not sure if I'm actually getting asked), and part of it is I don't have to be on the floor every tanda to have a good night, although DW seems to think that way! She offers to "help" in various ways, and says she is afraid I'm not having fun if I'm outside or sitting. I assure her I can take care of myself!

TD, this is what I do for what it's worth:

1. If my wife asks me to dance (verbally, no cabeceo needed), I always accept.
2. Men cabeceo her frequently. She accepts only if she knows he is a good dancer from past experience, or (when unknown) if she has seen him dance exceptionally well earlier in the evening. She almost never actively initiates. This gives her a chance to dance with other men for a change (and remind herself that it's never as good as dancing with me).
3. If women who know us socially ask me to dance verbally, I accept, as it would be awkward not to. Women are more sensitive to rejection in general, as they are less inclined to initiate in the first place, so to avoid any bad feelings I accept with good grace.
4. When women attempt to cabeceo me, I pretend not to notice.
5. The above generally gets me more than enough time on the dance floor (let's say 6-10 tandas per night, which is plenty for a pastime that is not core to my existence). If I feel I need more, then I just stop going to milongas and do classes instead, where there is constant dancing without the rest breaks; but frankly, it's usually not necessary.

Hope this helps.

... Beginners are essential to the continuity of a community and I agree that they should be encouraged as much as possible.

However there is a difference between a beginner and someone who has been dancing 10+ years and still has terrible, presumably by now incorrigible habits. Unfortunately the society where we currently live has plenty of the latter and very few if any actual beginners. ...