Passion, what are the limits?

[LoveTango]

The "cafe con leche" thing is part of A.T; he will ask other ladies, you will refuse other men. Just a matter of practise, after a while you'll do it without even thinking.

Thank you.

I just always assumed that I was old enough to be out of such concern. Well, I guess no one is too old to be exposed to new experience.

 

[LoveTango]

If you're not arrested then its probably ok

I am not able to understand your comment. It sounds.... I hate to think negatively.

 

[LoveTango]

One way to think about the cabaceo is that it is a way for the man to avoid being shot down publically. In other words He is doing the inviting. The woman rejects by not returning his gaze and looking away.

Yes, it feels easier if I thinks this way.

As most of us go through life we run into situations that are new to us and we sometimes struggle with how to deal with them. And, we struggle to put them into perspective.

Yes, I think I am struggling a bit.

It's possible that the guy is just a dog. Or maybe he's just gone through some difficult time emotionally. Propositioning a married woman isn't very cool, but it's been happening for a long long time, I'm pretty sure.
Long term you may find that you will adjust to this reality that is new to you.

I don't blame him. I know people hold different opinions on how one should conduct own personal life. I am disappointed that I could give people such an impression like it could even be possible.

 

[LoveTango]

It sounds like you feel violated. You are responding in a similar way to someone who has been assaulted or narrowly escaped assault. (especially the part about wondering if it will have a bigger impact on something you love and now feel uncomfortable engaging in as you had before)

I think you will get past this... it was your first time back and you were a little gunshy wondering if you were making yourself too vulnerable again.

Try to think of it this way: someone could have propositioned you this way in almost ANY circumstance. You could strike up a conversation with someone in the grocery line.. are you going to stop being friendly because some slimebag took it as an invitation? Or someone you chat with at the doctor's office? If you get dressed up nice and someone propositions you, are you going to start going out in sweats instead of looking good?

I'm not clear on whether this happened with someone you actually danced with or just someone who saw you there. But it doesn't matter. Wearing a short skirt and makeup is not an invitation to be raped, and using cabeceo at the milonga is not an invitation to have sex. Even this guy knows it isn't or he would have actually touched you inappropriately instead of asking in words.

Whether you want to dance with him again is up to you. If not, then using cabeceo with others is not something you should worry about.

If you do want to dance with him again and you're worried about using cabeceo with him specifically, I'd suggest using words the first time. Tell him you would enjoy dancing with him again, but you do NOT want him to get the wrong idea from it. If he propositions you again, then you will not be dancing with him again, but as long as he accepts your refusal for something more, then you will accept his cabeceo and dance invitations.

I would also suggest making a decision about this soon (and before you go out dancing again... certainly before you see HIM again) Facing it head-on by either deciding you won't ever dance with him again or by confronting him verbally to make the situation clear, is the best way (IMO) to prevent the incident from taking on any more significance in your mind that might interfere with your full engagement in tango.

I am very impressed by your post, Zoopsia. Every sentence is on target! I was quite confused, but you sort this thing out for me. I agree with everything you said here, even though I was not able to describe the feelings myself. I feel understood. Thank you!

I will take your suggestion and decide quickly on whether or not I will dance with him again.

 

[LoveTango]

I really appreciate everyone's kind input. Thanks a lot!

 

[ant]

Yes, I think I am struggling a bit.

LoveTango, if you still feel it is affecting you the next time you go to a milonga, come back and talk some more. Don't allow it carry on affecting you.

 

[bordertangoman]

Sorry to bring back this old thread. I didn't know what title I would use if I start a new thread, so decided to append to an old one. Hope this is not too far off topic.

A few days ago, when a milonga ended, a men asked me out, basically asked me to go home with him. He knew I was married, but still wanted to find out the possibility. Of course I refused, and felt slightly insulted at the moment, but didn't get angry. I brushed it off my mind, didn't want to put too much thoughts into the issue.

However, today at another milonga, I found myself incapable of exercising cabeceo, which I have being comfortably using to invite and accept dances. I only danced with a few friends, then left. I was afraid that man would treat my invitation to dance as an invitation to something more than a dance.

I felt terrible on my way home. Will I still be able to give as much of myself to the dance as before?

My comment was in the context of the OP.

You should not allow yourself to be influenced by the overtures of one man. Adhere to boundaries that you feel are appropriate on and off the dance floor.

 

[waltzgirl]

I don't blame him. I know people hold different opinions on how one should conduct own personal life. I am disappointed that I could give people such an impression like it could even be possible.

I think this feeling is part of why it's affecting you so strongly. Do blame him! It was inappropriate of him to proposition you. And likely nothing you did encouraged him. Guys who do that sort of thing are usually not tuned into social cues and are not responding to your behavior, just to their own impulses. Some guys treat it as a "numbers game," figuring if they always ask, they will sometimes get lucky. They frankly don't think about or care how their behavior affects the women they approach.

I know the slimey feeling that results from an encounter like that, but try to see it as being about him and his rotten manners, not about anything you did.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I think this feeling is part of why it's affecting you so strongly. Do blame him! It was inappropriate of him to proposition you. And likely nothing you did encouraged him. Guys who do that sort of thing are usually not tuned into social cues and are not responding to your behavior, just to their own impulses. Some guys treat it as a "numbers game," figuring if they always ask, they will sometimes get lucky. They frankly don't think about or care how their behavior affects the women they approach.

I know the slimey feeling that results from an encounter like that, but try to see it as being about him and his rotten manners, not about anything you did.

(my bold)

I totally agree with Waltzgirl.

You are still using common thinking patterns of victims... trying to figure out how you brought it on yourself. "What do I do that someone could see me as that kind of person?"

In a way, this is a normal reaction to feeling as though you don't have control. "What did I do?" is a way to reason out how to regain control (by changing what you do)

However, it also leaves you blaming yourself inappropriately, just like victims of assault are prone to do.
"If only I hadn't..."...
"It's my fault because I...."
"I should know better than to...."

Self-blame is a way for you to convince your victimized self that you are not powerless, but rather you can determine all outcomes by how you do things.

Unfortunately, in cases like this, it almost always goes to far. People don't just rationally assess themselves and what they might need to do to reduce their chance of being victimized in the future, such as being more aware of surroundings, keeping a close eye on their drink at a bar, or taking a self-defense class...you know PROACTIVE steps that are worth doing even if you haven't been victimized.

No, they engage in REACTIVE, fear based behaviors, going so far as to eliminate things in their life that they have every right to enjoy, such as looking attractive, leaving the house alone and, in your case, using cabeceo at a milonga and dancing tango without worrying about sexual harassment.

So please stop RIGHT NOW wondering how you brought this on yourself.

If it happens regularly with many different men, then I'd think maybe something in your behavior or dress is sending off the wrong impression. But ONE inappropriate creep does not a floozey make.

 

[LoveTango]

LoveTango, if you still feel it is affecting you the next time you go to a milonga, come back and talk some more. Don't allow it carry on affecting you.

Thank you.

 

[LoveTango]

My comment was in the context of the OP.

You should not allow yourself to be influenced by the overtures of one man. Adhere to boundaries that you feel are appropriate on and off the dance floor.

Now I understand. Just by reading your previous comments, I thought you assumed that I was carrying on some criminal action.

 

[LoveTango]

I think this feeling is part of why it's affecting you so strongly. Do blame him! It was inappropriate of him to proposition you. And likely nothing you did encouraged him. Guys who do that sort of thing are usually not tuned into social cues and are not responding to your behavior, just to their own impulses. Some guys treat it as a "numbers game," figuring if they always ask, they will sometimes get lucky. They frankly don't think about or care how their behavior affects the women they approach.

I know the slimey feeling that results from an encounter like that, but try to see it as being about him and his rotten manners, not about anything you did.

Thanks for the understanding. I still cann't blame him. He might even think it was a compliment to me. This kind of thing does ruin one's feeling for dance, temporarily at least. I wish everyone comes to dance just for the dance.

 

[LoveTango]

(my bold)

You are still using common thinking patterns of victims... trying to figure out how you brought it on yourself. "What do I do that someone could see me as that kind of person?"

In a way, this is a normal reaction to feeling as though you don't have control. "What did I do?" is a way to reason out how to regain control (by changing what you do)

It is kind of like that. All of a sudden I started to realize that people could view me with motives other than pure enjoyment of dance.

I don't really blame myself because I don't dress or behave inappropriately. I am rather conservative.

If a good connection is the cause to blame, it becomes a dilemma.

 

[waltzgirl]

Again, he--and only he--is to blame.

 

[AndaBien]

...If a good connection is the cause to blame, it becomes a dilemma.

A good connection is not to blame; quite the contrary. Don't let this incident affect your dancing negatively. I understand that you are upset about it, but it's not necessary to assign any blame.