LCbaseball22
Member
Ok, what the hell is this "milonga" thing I keep seeing mentioned? 
Really? Any Music?
- Thread starter QMSF
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tangomonkey
Active Member
Definitely more of a 3 feel to me. The piano, almost throughout, is playing 1-2&-3-4-5 with the & as the third beat in a triplet. That's what gives it the jazz swing feel and for me emphasizes the 1-2-3 more than the 4-5. Don't think I'd want to dance to it though.
Edit: Jut listened again and the 2& is dotted eighth - 16th, although sometimes I hear it more as a triplet. Maybe the musicians are playing with it a bit, more likely my ears aren't working today. Anyway, still hear a 3 feel overall.
Edit: Jut listened again and the 2& is dotted eighth - 16th, although sometimes I hear it more as a triplet. Maybe the musicians are playing with it a bit, more likely my ears aren't working today. Anyway, still hear a 3 feel overall.
I just hope you are aware that my prior post was an attempt at humor.
To give a direct answer to your question, yes. It certainly can be done, and I'm sure I could do it.
Here is an example:Ok, what the hell is this "milonga" thing I keep seeing mentioned?
[yt]-0kmqbQTUlk[/yt]
Actually, there was a 5/4 waltz being done during the ragtime era.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/15359
Listen to music. Look at sheet music.
I find that clicking on the arrow to the right of the titles gives better results.
http://www.todotango.com/english/biblioteca/partituras/indice_por_ritmo.asp?ritmo=Milonga
The version of Silueta Porteña they had there, I had not heard before. Not bad.
http://www.todotango.com/english/biblioteca/partituras/partitura.asp?idletra=1628
"Milonga is an excited habanera."
The original habanera divided into four pulses, in a standard two-four where every note was stressed.
In becoming milonga, though, all four notes turned strong, as tempo was doubled... the strength of the first beat weakened the fourth giving an almost waltz-like feel to milonga: one-two-three(four), one-two-three(four).
Habanera is one, two, three-four.
source Thompson's "Tango the Art History of Love" page 129
Kinda funny here, because I had a discussion with someone after learning a step sequence in Alex Kreb's milonga class that, when I thought about it, was perfect for habanera. I had the speed part right, habanera is slower and more definate. Thus pretty good for practicing those steps.
And that part about an almost waltz like feel might ring some bells here.
The original habanera divided into four pulses, in a standard two-four where every note was stressed.
In becoming milonga, though, all four notes turned strong, as tempo was doubled... the strength of the first beat weakened the fourth giving an almost waltz-like feel to milonga: one-two-three(four), one-two-three(four).
Habanera is one, two, three-four.
source Thompson's "Tango the Art History of Love" page 129
Kinda funny here, because I had a discussion with someone after learning a step sequence in Alex Kreb's milonga class that, when I thought about it, was perfect for habanera. I had the speed part right, habanera is slower and more definate. Thus pretty good for practicing those steps.
And that part about an almost waltz like feel might ring some bells here.
If we cut the fifth beat, the rhytmm is almost a perfect milonga, with its characteristic syncopation on the second beat.
Take five: 1&2&3&4&5&
Milonga: 1&2&3&4&
Peaches
Well-Known Member
I would argue that milonga is 1-ah-2-&-3-ah-4. The traditional rhythm that makes milonga milonga is the dotted, or "uneven" rhythm...which you don't get with 1&2&3&4&, regardless of what you accent.
I agree with the delayed 2 beat but not the early 3 or delayed 4 beat.
Not exactly: milonga is 1-ah-ah-&-3-ah-4
The there is a delay of the second beat.
You can find a better explanation here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milonga
It can also be 1-&-ah-&-3-ah-4, exactly like the first four beats of Take five.
Maybe we have a problem of notation, this should be more clear:
Code:
1 2 3 4 5
Milonga (1) * ** *
Milonga (2) ** ** *
Take five ** ** * *tangomonkey
Active Member
Not so sure about that...
Take 5 is fast, measured in quarter notes per minute, and is in 5/4 time signature (The title has a dual meaning, how clever!) The piano is repeating this figure:
Beat 1) quarter Beat 2) dotted-8th 16th Beat 3) quarter Beat 4) quarter Beat 5) quarter
Subdivide each beat into 4 counts. The rhythmic pattern is the bottom line.
5/4 time signature:
1 2 3 4 5
1234 1234 1234 1234 1234
1___ 1__4 1___ 1___ 1___
Milongas seem fast too, but that's because the beat is frequently subdivded into two basic (habanera based) rhythms. Milonga is in a moderate 2/4.
The two basic rhythmic patterns:
Pattern 1)
Beat 1: dotted-eighth sixteenth, Beat 2: eighth eighth
Subdive each beat into 4 counts. The rhythmic pattern is the bottom line.
2/4 time signature:
1 2
1234 1234
1__4 1_3_
Pattern 2)
Beat 1: sixteenth-eighth-sixteenth, Beat 2: eighth-eighth
Subdived each beat into 4 counts:
2/4 time signature:
1 2
1234 1234
12_4 1_3_
Given the fast tempo, Take 5 may feel something like Pattern 2, but it's not quite. Pattern 2 starts fast-fast, Take 5 starts slow-slow (relative to the tempi)
Must be an easier way to explain this???
(For our British members, sorry I don't do quavers and semi-quavers...)
HA HA then we would all be musicians and the magic would be gone!
Seriously, even the written scores don't tell you every thing you need to know.
I don't know HOW many explanations I've read of "swing", and even someone like Gunther Schuller ends up writing about "feel".