Single follower at Milongas (to risk or not to risk)

[TA_RA]

Hi guys, I am relatively new to AT, but I can follow quite well as I have a wast experience in many other forms of dancing and can understand how to maintain my axis, have a free leg, collect, very comfortable with the close embrace, I am very flexible and was regularly complimented on my musicality.

I recently started going to local Milongas. I am 40 (I consider myself to be a good looking lady). It is really awkward to be sitting at a table by myself or with other lady and wait sometimes for a few tandas in a row before being asked to dance.

My question is... Should I just be patient and keep on attending and wait till more people know me and my dancing abilities and start asking me dancing more regularly or whether I have a right to walk and verbally ask a guy to dance with me? I tried to search for guys visually and perform cabeceo, but they all seem to pretend not to notice my attempts.

So should I be more bold or more patient? What do you think will pay in a long run?

 

[opendoor]

Hello TA_RA, welcome to tango. And unfortunately also welcome to milongas that often are not pleasant. I know many women who have said that they do not want to endure this frustration any longer.
I am a leader and observe different strategies and solutions. Networking and building up a small peer group is important so that you can reliably get onto the dance floor and be seen regularly. "Good looking" is a double-edged sword, because it deters shy men. Maybe you actively approach this group. At the same time you have to increase your value, because otherwise you won't get rid of those always bad and unteachable leaders. And there are often exclusive background networks that invite each other privately to coffee, cake and birthdays, something which also creates commitments. It is also advantageous to have several dance partners at the same time, one in the absolute beginner's course and one at your level for prácticas and workshops. And go to festivals with your peers, rent an apartment and live together during this time. I know my tips don't improve the situation of followers at milongas, but maybe they help to make the frustration in the evening a little more bearable. Good luck and welcome to DF!

 

[TA_RA]

Thanks a lot @opendoor for your piece of advice. I used to go very often to Salsa or Ballroom social events purely for dancing purposes. I am quite introverted and do not like small talks, so I am quite satisfied with "just dancing" and "no strings attached" situation, but apparently AT community doesn't work this way. Maybe it's time from me to start working on my social skills. Thanks again. This is great forum by the way. I read a lot of posts back to 2010 and found loads of interesting information. Thanks to everyone who contributes their knowledge. I hope I will be helpful one day as well.

 

[Tango Distance]

There are many good posts here! Sometimes I browse with the search button just for fun reading. Here is a huge thread on your question:
https://www.dance-forums.com/thread...not-asked-to-dance.17711/page-53#post-1142779

Just a random thought: Have you taken Tango lessons? I have found that ladies from other dance styles can follow a Tango lead, but it feels different. It could be leads misinterpret your skill level because of this. Also, taking lessons will introduce you to local Tango people.

My DW is one of the most (if not the most) popular lady to be asked in our little area (and she does well when we travel, too). Some of her success strategies:

• Pay attention so you don't miss any invites! Her cell phone stays in her dance bag.
• She stands
• She always thanks the leader and says something nice about their dancing
• She never says no
• She smiles a lot

Here is a search on the word "introvert" for this Tango forum. Tango has been called a dance of introverts. FWIW I have a high Myers Briggs introversion score.
https://www.dance-forums.com/search/567326/?q=introvert&t=post&c[child_nodes]=1&c[nodes][0]=9&o=date

Some of my likes:

• Ladies who look happy when they are dancing. I'm nervous about asking someone who does not look to be having a good time -- will they enjoy dancing with me?
• Ladies who look happy when watching the dance floor
• Ladies who will give me a quick smile as I pass by dancing
• Flattery will get you everywhere

I'll admit I'm not great at catching mirada/cabeceo, but here are some things I have observed that have helped me notice:

• My eyes are a bit narrow. I have found it helps to open my eyes wider. Since that realization I now observe that some ladies do that when they cabeceo me, and it does make it more noticeable and obvious.
• Leaning the torso towards the floor or towards me while doing mirada/cabeceo -- again, it just makes it more eye catching and obvious. BTW, no need to fall over, a little goes a long way.
• As you might have inferred, my reading of body language is not great and I need to be "shouted" at! I think some just do those first two bullets naturally and don't have to explicitly think to do it.
• Give it a little time -- It might take someone a few seconds to realize you are looking their way.

 

[itwillhappen]

I used to go very often to Salsa or Ballroom social events purely for dancing purposes.

I'm amazed that you can find a dance opportunity at ballroom events in your area if you go alone. Therefore, our cultures are perhaps fundamentally different.

Answer the question for yourself why you don't "simply" go to a milonga with a few friends and dance with them. And what an overall situation arises when many people answer exactly like you.

I think that unless a mirada/cabeceo is used, the one who wants to lead should ask. So learn to lead.

 

[Brummbaer]

My question is... Should I just be patient and keep on attending and wait till more people know me and my dancing abilities and start asking me dancing more regularly or whether I have a right to walk and verbally ask a guy to dance with me? I tried to search for guys visually and perform cabeceo, but they all seem to pretend not to notice my attempts.

It all depends where you are in the world AND whether they're subscribing to their interpretation of AT codigos. Probably best not to ask in BsAs, but it is apparently done amongst acquaintances.
Some milongas in Europe seem to believe it's up to the leader to cabeceo, but fortunately fewer.

Social actions seem to indicate that it's better to be acquainted socially first, or be with a group with partners, who will ask. Once you're 'known', then it's ok. But sad that this has to happen, but it seems to function.


There's lots on codigos and cabeceo on the forum.

Personally I have no objection to being asked, or cabeceo from a follower, but some do. Young(er), attractive females can also be seen as a threat.

Basic advice is not to spend your time looking at a phone, socialise (group classes, workshops). What are the hosts doing if you're on your own?

 

[Rabbit]

My question is... Should I just be patient and keep on attending and wait till more people know me and my dancing abilities and start asking me dancing more regularly or whether I have a right to walk and verbally ask a guy to dance with me? I tried to search for guys visually and perform cabeceo, but they all seem to pretend not to notice my attempts.

Depends on the milonga and how formal it is. Women have the right to invite in the same manner as whatever the men are doing. If it's pretty relaxed and other people walk around and invite directly, you can do the same thing.

(I am going to guess from your self-description that you probably want a younger/more relaxed milonga where people are more likely to dance a large variety of movements anyway, and direct invitations are usually acceptable in that setting.)

 

[TA_RA]

Wow! Thank you so much, guys, for all your recommendations. I am definitely miles apart from my mobile phone. Our Milongas have dim lightening. Anyone who will try to turn their phone on will probably receive a massive disapproval from the local crowd

@Tango Distance brilliant recommendations. Thank you. I am generally always smiling while looking at people and feel blissful and happy when on the dance floor. Just need to master "flattery skills" )

@itwillhappen I am from Australia. We have a very good Ballroom social dancing scene here. I have being around doing Ballroom for 10 years. I think it helps when you know everyone. Just hard to start from square one in AT. But that is fine. Thanks to everyone's recommendations, I decided not to rush and get to know new people bit by bit.

@Rabbit No, quite opposite. I really like old fashioned, more traditional Milongas with mature people. Younger people dance in open embrace and they concentrate a lot on fancy moves. I am looking for more depth on all levels. And I really like close embrace. It allows me to achieve a state of flow in a matter of seconds. Even dancing Milonga and Waltz in CE with occasional breaks is much much more fun as I can feel what a Leader wants to do by the movement of his ribcage.

All good. I'll be patient. While sitting and waiting for invitations, I'll be listening and studying music as well as observing people on the dance floor in attempt to get to know their characters better.

Music in AT is what fascinates me at the moment as there are so many layers to it.

And yes, I started going to local workshops and lessons. My teacher, though, is very discouraging when it comes to Milongas. He says he doesn't dance with his students as they ruin his night. But to be honest I haven't seen him dancing with anyone anyway. He is a former Australian champion in AT. He is still performing with his partner, but generally doesn't dance at Milongas.

 

[Brummbaer]

I have being around doing Ballroom for 10 years.

That can be a deterrent. Ballroom AT isn't the same.

 

[TA_RA]

That can be a deterrent. Ballroom AT isn't the same.

No. No. Do not worry. I understand the difference very well between English Tango (WDC), International Tango (WDSF), Ballroom AT and Argentine Tango as it is danced at Milongas. I agree, they are very different styles of dancing.

 

[Brummbaer]

No. No. Do not worry. I understand the difference very well between English Tango (WDC), International Tango (WDSF), Ballroom AT and Argentine Tango as it is danced at Milongas. I agree, they are very different styles of dancing.

That's good. Just thinking of a ballroom AT couple who turned up at a social milonga. It was obvious that they were ballroom dancers, and that was a deterrent to them being invited; others have made the transition successfully by being curious about the social style and, basically, socialising. It could be that your 'known' for ballroom.

My teacher, though, is very discouraging when it comes to Milongas. He says he doesn't dance with his students as they ruin his night. But to be honest I haven't seen him dancing with anyone anyway. He is a former Australian champion in AT.

That can also be a problem. Interestingly we ended up going to a ballroom teacher initially who, fortunately, did understand the differences and what we needed to learn as a 'crash course', but since then we've worked with several others, including Argentinians. I'm presuming that's a ballroom AT champion? Not dancing with his students isn't very encouraging. Some of my most encouraging moments have been some Argentinian maestra, even previous world champion, bothering and saying Dance this with me to correct my lead.

I think you've just got to get in there. Get acquainted with some people who regularly attend. Chat. Be sociable. You don't have to go out of the way then to cabeceo/mirada. I know one follower who just gets fed up and asks if she's not getting tandas - but usually people she knows. It can be cringeworthy, but needs must to actually introduce yourself, explain, ask for a dance, etc. Just blame it on those leaders who are missing out. Maybe a practica, if such exist, or even that informal practilonga. But only you know the societal norms and consequences in your locale, and this is just mansplaining.

 

[Reuven Thetanguero]

From my own experience (I am a man) - locate and befriend the unofficial leader of the pack - the Milonga organizer or anyone that seems to be in the center of events, get him to dance with you, and voila - all the other leaders will stand in line to dance with you!

In my case, many years ago, I was visiting a Salsa Dance in Israel. I was a good dancer, but no one knew me, particularly being an American. I located the "leader" (a man), befriended him, and in course of the conversation brought up dancing with his girlfriend. She did, we have a good one and after that one dance, all the ladies could not wait to dance with me.

 

[Brummbaer]

From my own experience (I am a man) - locate and befriend the unofficial leader of the pack - the Milonga organizer or anyone that seems to be in the center of events, get him to dance with you, and voila - all the other leaders will stand in line to dance with you!

In my case, many years ago, I was visiting a Salsa Dance in Israel. I was a good dancer, but no one knew me, particularly being an American. I located the "leader" (a man), befriended him, and in course of the conversation brought up dancing with his girlfriend. She did, we have a good one and after that one dance, all the ladies could not wait to dance with me.

Excellent idea Basically, find the organ grinder.

 

[JournalInTime]

I dance with uncoupled followers all the time. Things that lead me to invite them, all of which are more than a bit controversial:

• They actively scan for leaders, and look toward leaders with whom they want to dance during each cortina. They do not look at their phones. They make a point of not sitting behind a pillar or along a wall where only leaders directly opposite can meet their gaze. They aren't too shy/proud to meet the gaze of a leader who is dancing, as if to say, "Hey, I like the way you dance. Look me up later." (That last one tends to be especially controversial . . . but most strangers I invite, I invite for that reason.)

• They sit with other followers. If you don't seem to have friends, it's human nature to worry that you might not be friendly. Lots of leaders won't take a chance on someone who might not be friendly. There's usually a spot where uncoupled followers hang out; go there and make friends, but turn your gaze to leaders during cortinas. No tanguera of any experience will fault you for 30 seconds without eye contact while chatting.

• They smile, or at least try not to look grumpy. It may be sexist ("Hey, babe, smile!"), but "resting grumpy face" has the same effect as the above: You seem unfriendly.

• They don't send mixed messages about their coupled/non-coupled status. If I see a follower at a table with or otherwise among a bunch of leaders, I tend to write them off as "Has lots of chances to dance. Doesn't need me." Yes, that's a bit harsh of me, but I do it without thinking. In my community, couples often dance once or twice and then sit separately specifically to avoid the follower not being invited for this reason.

• They don't wear scary clothing. By which I mean, velvet or anything else that's hit and/or sticks to partners. Very long skirts or dresses that restrict step size and leg play. Chunky heels with sharp corners that hurt if there's the smallest error. Heels too high for stability. There's one woman who loves to dance with me, but I avoid her due to ankle-length velvet and chunky heels . . . it's just unpleasant.

 

[Brummbaer]

Agree with all of that, but just to add:

They don't wear scary clothing.

I'm there for a social AT, not to take the latest tuned-up supercar for a spin. So 'scary clothing' can mean too little (or maybe that ballroom AT outfit). OK, maybe in my dreams, but it's not just velvet and chunky heels.

And here's a man typically judging a woman just for a dance by what she wears, or doesn't.