Standard dancer adding smooth?

lucia_l said:
Doing smooth or standard for a year would likely be pedagogically better than doing smooth for 4 weeks, swithching to standard for 4 weeks then switching back and forth and back and forth. I do think it's good to mix some number of dances, but there is an extreme where you are just doing pointless switching and so never mastering anything.
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I’ve done smooth & rhythm for almost one year, and now I want to add Standard. I don’t plan to switch back and forth.

But I only want to study Standard with a pro who LOVES it...who gets as excited about it as my current pro gets about rhythm. Otherwise there’s no point in it for me.

IFP's studio is a two hour drive from me, each way. Their focus (and their passion) is International, so that would have been my first choice of studio - but for the non-sustainable commute.

Who knows. As we’ve all learned over the past five months, things can change in a second. Mann tracht und Gott lacht. I’m just enjoying the unique experience of teaching my body to express emotions that I didn’t even know I was feeling. And the fact that I can challenge my brain at the same time is a bonus.
 
SHORT VERSION:
I have my first lesson in Standard next week, with a very tall pro in my studio I’ve never worked with before.

LONG VERSION:
At my lesson on Thursday, Pro actually said something positive about my smooth closed hold. Not one to resist opportunity, I chimed in, “so just think how amazing I could be - ” we finished the sentence in unison: “ - in standard.” I nodded eagerly. “Think of the underlying skills I would get so much better at! The awareness of partner connection. The precision in technique. Think how much that would improve my smooth dancing!”
He asked, “are you trying to convince ME to dance it with you?”
“No. You hate it.”
“No, I don’t - I mean, I don’t get any enjoyment out of it....”
“You’re passionate about rhythm. I want a teacher for standard who feels the same way about that as you do about rhythm.”
In a wooden voice, he said, “I’m a professional. I can teach any style I need to. That’s what I get paid for.”
I responded emphatically, “No! I wouldn’t ask you to do that. And I wouldn’t want a teacher who does it just because he’s getting paid - I need him to love it.”
He looked relieved. “For me, I like smooth much better. Smooth is much more challenging. Standard is, you know, whatever, fine. So I already talked to [Name1]. He is ready to have a lesson with you.”
“Why him versus [Name2]?”
He shrugged. “No reason, really, I guess. I mean, there’s no reason why one over the other...no one is going to say ‘oh my god why did she pick this person instead of that one’... [Name1] is tall,” he trailed off. (This is certainly true. He’s at least 6’ 4”).
I said, “I was thinking I’d try a lesson with each of them before choosing.”
He sucked in a long, slow breath, frowning. “You wouldn’t want to just pick one, and not bother with the other one?”
“How do I know whose teaching style will work for me?”
Long pause. “You’ve never tried either of them before? Never had a lesson with either one?”
“I had one lesson with [Name2] back in January when you were out sick. We worked on forward steps in rumba. That’s it.”
He nodded. “So what’s your time frame? Are you wanting to start right away?”

And then we changed direction to scheduling, number of lessons per week (too many for me lately - will have to spread them out more)....so it didn’t occur to me until much later that he didn’t fully answer my question. In fact, it feels like he steered away on purpose. There is some kind of subtext that I can’t read. It might be some or all or none of the following:
Pro doesn’t want me working with Name2 for some reason.
Name2 doesn’t want to work with me for some reason (but we can guess the reason, and nobody would blame him for his refusal, lol).
Since I’ve never worked with Name1, the studio policy or expectation is that it’s his “turn” next.
Of course, maybe it really is due to the simple fact that Name1 and I can create a better shape, better lines, whatever you call it, due to his height.

Whatever. We know I tend to overthink everything.
 
PNP,
I didn't think you were planning on going back and forth and back and forth. I just tend to think of what appears to be the business model at a studio where I once took lessons. Touching lightly on "steps and pattern of the month" in whatever the "dance of the month" was seemed to be the studio's default plan for students taking group lessons who decided to take private lessons.

I'd taken some lessons different places on and off, and I'd seen the "learn a few move in a bunch of different moves with little fundamentals" approach before. It can be fun and is often what students think they want. (Heck, it is what some students want!) But the student doesn't improve fundamentals, so they often don't really become a better dancer. (Of course, some people take to dance more naturally, or had ballet training. They end up being fairly good so lots of students think the problem is them, not the method!)

Anyway, I sort of already sensed the issue. In my first lesson there, I told my pro (who was not the owner!) that I wanted to learn how to dance, not "groovy steps and routines". That pro was very happy to comply with this approach rather than the "let's drill studio owners groovie routine from this week's group lesson!)

Long and short: there are studios that will have students experiencing a degree of whiplash between too many dances. They change to fast for most students to get any depth.
 
ProgressNotPerfection said:
I said, “I was thinking I’d try a lesson with each of them before choosing.”
He sucked in a long, slow breath, frowning. “You wouldn’t want to just pick one, and not bother with the other one?”
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This was my first thought: Now one or the other will feel rejected or at least evaluated as "less". This could cause tension.


ProgressNotPerfection said:
...so it didn’t occur to me until much later that he didn’t fully answer my question. In fact, it feels like he steered away on purpose. There is some kind of subtext that I can’t read. It might be some or all or none of the following:
Pro doesn’t want me working with Name2 for some reason.
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Your alternate theories he doesn't want you working with Name2 or Name2 doesn't want to work with you might be right also. If it's the former, he might think Name2 won't deal well with your rather... ehrmm... direct personality? (Some teachers really do not want students to "argue back".) Or it might be that he and Name2 have different 'philosophies' about approaches and he thinks office friction could ensue.

And yes, it could also be that the studio wants Name1 to have a chance or Name1 might need another student more right now and so on and so on. There are a zillion possible reasons.

But if you felt there was a pause and steering away from the conversation, I wouldn't be at all surprised if your teacher has a reason for steering you to Name 1 but he doesn't want to reveal it. If it were me, I'd go with Name1 unless I didn't like his style of teaching. Among other things, I really can't entirely tell how I'd like a teacher until 3 or 4 lessons. First lessons are... exploratory. So I think you really can't tell until a few lessons.

But I'm not you, so I know you'll figure out what works for you.
 
lucia_l said:
he might think Name2 won't deal well with your rather... ehrmm... direct personality? (Some teachers really do not want students to "argue back".)
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:rofl:
hahahahahahahahahahaha too true! To some teachers, I’m a dream student. To others, I’m the reason they dream of early retirement.

lucia_l said:
I wouldn't be at all surprised if your teacher has a reason for steering you to Name 1 but he doesn't want to reveal it. If it were me, I'd go with Name1 unless I didn't like his style of teaching.
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Yep, I agree. I’ve watched Name1 perform at mini match, showcase, & compete at The Heritage, and he’s no slouch! (No height pun intended.) And you’re definitely right that one lesson isn’t enough to base a decision on.

Hmm. I don’t want to keep calling him “Name1.” I’d say TP for Tall Pro, but don’t wanna do that for obvious reasons. Maybe VTP (Very Tall Pro)? Or Pro2? Or IP (International Pro)? Nah, I’ll use “SP” (Standard Pro). I like it because it’s dissimilar enough from Pro and IFP that I can keep them separate in my blog posts, and it’s an accurate description of his role without reference to physical appearance.
 
Caveat on the ensuing comments: my dance journey has been an unconventional one due to my "I do what I want cuz I'm grown" approach over the years, so find your salt-shaker. (Ok I was trying to suggest take it with a grain of salt, but may have just implied something else).

I did smooth for several years before I took up standard with the independent pro. Mainly because my studio where all this started is primarily an American-style social one, not from any conscious decision. And I wasn't even interested in smooth initially, I was (am) a rhythm dancer at heart who just wanted to rock out at parties but with less of the drunken chaotic flavor. In fact, when the studio first set up our program after the introductory phase and we were selecting dances, they told us we had to pick at least one smooth dance (i.e. we couldn't do an all rhythm program). So I rolled my eyes and picked one.

Anyways, it eventually became apparent that if we wanted to keep up at practice parties, we would have to learn some smooth as well. So we (eventually I, as my spouse drifted away and out) started learning smooth as well, but at this point I've still had loads more rhythm training than smooth even though the latter has come a long way.

I took up standard with independent pro because that was (and presumably still is) clearly his forte. We did Latin as well (and ultimately more Latin than standard but that is way outside the scope of this thread).

All that to say, I wholeheartedly agree with the comments that standard is much less forgiving than smooth. And that it did greatly improve my smooth dancing, in terms of holding up frame and posture, and some footwork cleanup.

One other note.... so my earlier understanding of smooth vs. standard was mainly that standard is in frame, and smooth can go in and out of frame. However, independent pro explained to me that smooth is like Latin + standard, i.e. it's not just the frame, it's also the styling and the general flavor. Smooth can be elegant like standard, but it also has a lot of the "sexy" elements of Latin. Note the dresses (and I have one like this, before I appreciated the difference) that have slits almost up to the hips, and how some of them look almost like Latin dresses on top. They also don't have as many layers or flounce in the skirt as a standard dress, so that the dress moves a little more like Latin/rhythm. I didn't fully realize a lot of this until I watched some pro smooth heats at one of the comps with independent pro, and it wasn't just "standard sometimes not in frame".
 
ProgressNotPerfection said:
I genuinely believe that studying Standard will HELP my Smooth in the long run, even if it slows down my visible progress.
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I used to think this, when I was competing in Smooth. It did help to have Standard coaches looking at our Smooth sometimes, just to get different viewpoints. Actually working on Standard, however, did not help more than spending those hours on Smooth would have.

Past a certain point, it is good to have an instructor who takes a rigorous approach to smooth. I think you have that, though. I wouldn't recommend Standard unless (a) you're curious about it, or (b) you know you actually want to do Standard, not just to improve your Smooth.

ProgressNotPerfection said:
There is some kind of subtext that I can’t read. It might be some or all or none of the following:
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Either he is better friends with one than the other, or he has a good reason to think you are better off with one than the other but professional courtesy prevents him from voicing his reason.
 
IndyLady said:
Smooth can be elegant like standard, but it also has a lot of the "sexy" elements of Latin. Note the dresses (and I have one like this, before I appreciated the difference) that have slits almost up to the hips, and how some of them look almost like Latin dresses on top. They also don't have as many layers or flounce in the skirt as a standard dress, so that the dress moves a little more like Latin/rhythm.
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Like this one?
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After my lesson today with Pro, Name2 came over to me and said, “I hear you want to take standard lessons with me or Name1. And I see Name1 already has you scheduled for a lesson this week. So when do you want a lesson with me?”

I was caught off guard. I didn’t think Pro had spoken to Name2 about this, because he had seemed to be steering me toward Name1 (even though he was very careful never to come right out and say that). So I looked through my calendar, trying to decide whether or not to take a lesson with Name2, picturing the potential ripple effects either way.

Then I stopped and looked at him instead. “Do you love standard?”
He blinked. “Do I what?”
“Do you love teaching standard?”
“It’s one of the styles we teach here.”
“I know that...but I mean, do you enjoy teaching standard as much as you do smooth?”
“Well, standard is the hardest dance, physically, on the teacher.” [Good God. With these careful non-answers, the man could have been a politician.]
“Mm-hmm. Pro pretty much hates standard. He basically said it’s crap. Do you feel the same way?”
“Umm...not to THAT extent.”
I started laughing. “But apparently to SOME extent in that direction?”
He shrugged. “I didn’t say that,” he hedged.
“Name2, I would LOVE to take lessons with you sometime. I hope I will get the chance to. But you don’t sound enthusiastic about teaching standard. Not at all. And here’s the thing. You know how Pro absolutely loves rhythm? He gets excited about it and loves teaching it. I want to study rhythm with him because of that. And I want to study standard with a teacher who feels that same way about standard.”

He raised his eyebrows. “You want a teacher who gets excited about standard? Then you should take lessons with Name1.”

So I didn’t schedule a lesson with Name2.

(I’m planning to have a similar conversation with Name1 at our lesson. I really hope he doesn’t feel the same way as Name2 does.)
 
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