The point was stated in the beginning, but you probably missed it. Dare I quote myself?
"Am I right to think that these are two styles of tango: the older one, rigidly rhythmical, and the more recent one, with a changing tempo? "
Styles anyone
- Thread starter tanjive
- Start date
"Am I right to think that these are two styles of tango: the older one, rigidly rhythmical, and the more recent one, with a changing tempo? "
Exactly.
That's not my interpretation of an adornment. There are steps necessary to get into a position to perform a gancho, and there is movement that's necessary to lead it, but the gancho itself is merely a consequence of certain body parts interrupting the flow of a step. Sacadas are also an adornment for this reason, as are boleos. And like any adornment, they ought to be used sparingly, when the music calls for it. People are free to do otherwise, of course, but it's ugly when done wrong, too frequently, or at inappropriate times. People are free to dance in an ugly manner, but why should that be encouraged?
opendoor
Forum Master
- I´ve told you before, that the best argentine teachers teach abroad.
- please do not blame those women, they did not become acquainted with what we all got to know.
- There are definitely more than two styles.
- The ones that you mentioned are called Tango Bravo (stepping on either beat of a pieces in the style of Biagi or early D´Arienzo) and Tango de Salón (interpreting the melody of Tangos written in the post-De-Caro style).
- The transition is called the decarian revolution and it is comparabel to the viejo-nuevo-change at the end of the last century.
- Some argentines deny or avoid this fact see todotango.com/english/biblioteca/cronicas/entrevista_frontera.asp
- De Caro invented what we now call Tango de Salón (the music style of the golden age), which brought along severe changes in the dancing style as well.
- Hope this may help.
.
The point was stated in the beginning, but you probably missed it. Dare I quote myself?
"Am I right to think that these are two styles of tango: the older one, rigidly rhythmical, and the more recent one, with a changing tempo? "
No I didn't miss that, but that just seemed to be an opening
to make your complaint. As far as I can tell, provided a leader dances
within the embrace then his style is his own and, as has been stated
already, a leader can dance however he feels the music. It's the lady's
choice as to whether she likes it or not and whether she dances
with him again.
I am intrigued by this though.
Why is it that you are doing the complaining
as a proxy rather than your husband directly?
Everyone I know uses the term "adornment" interchangeably with "embellishment" to mean an extra thing put in by one partner that requires no accommodation by the other partner. You are using it completely the opposite... things that are led to fancy up the dance by the couple.
Sorta like the difference between a woman deciding to wear an ornate necklace and the couple agreeing between them to dress formal for an occasion. (or, more accurately, the woman being told by the man to wear something specific) I've never heard anyone else use adornment to mean the led steps that "dress up" the couple's dance.
I do know a teacher who uses the term "adorn" to mean "collect". (so with every step, you step/adorn then step/adorn) This makes some sense to me in that the collected position is where many embellishments happen and if you haven't learned to collect, you probably won't be able to execute any follower embellishments.
But I've never heard anyone talk of movements that the follower can't avoid (such as properly led ganchos, boleos, and sacadas) being adornments. The exception is that the amount of lift to the followers leg in a boleo can be an embellishment sometimes. At other times, keeping the foot down requires effort because of the level of energy the leader put into the lead. However, a follower embellishing a boleo larger than what was led could be a danger unless she KNOWS she has room for it.
Dave Bailey
Active Member
Which is their style, it's completely valid, and they're presumably very adept at it. That doesn't make it gospel, it just means it's their own style.
When I was a much more naive beginner, if I were stopped during a dance for a lecture, I stood there humbly and took it. Now I'm a less-naive beginner, I might not be so polite about such a flagrant abuse of the codes. Whilst some codes are - shall we say - culturally specific, others make perfect sense universally. Obey the line of dance, respect other dancers, be polite, and so on.
And one code is that you don't teach at a milonga. Especially when such advice is unsolicited, and especially when you're in the middle of a dance. With a stranger.
I mean, good grief.
opendoor
Forum Master
Youuu want to march, and I only want to dance. Curious, isn´t it :tongue:
I'd go further than that, and say that collecting between any step
is fundamental to the possibilities of the dance. It's emphasised
quite rightly for women and less so for men but helps in many ways.
And yes, it then enables adornments/embellishments/decorations
but that is not the fundamental reason for collecting.
But I'm mystified why any teacher would call collecting an adornment,
though of course it is one of the distinguishing visual effects of tango.
Yes, total agreement.
Again!
Where do you get that idea from?
Dave Bailey
Active Member
An adornment is an embellishment is a decoration. They are additions, enhancements, or variations of a movement designed to improve that movement from a visual perspective. Adornments, in my opinion, are not led.
So a gancho is not an adornment, it's an interruption of a led free leg movement - there's no need to enhance that or decorate it, it just is. If done correctly, it's not like the leader puts his leg there and the follower decides to flick her leg independently around it.
That said, many women do add adornments to ganchos, making them more striking, and many ganchos are not led (in which case the above "flick her leg independently" does apply!)
Well, yes.
Both are natural, led movements. They're not adornments.-because i am not complaining, neither did my husband. he was very bemused by this and just shrugged it off.
-because i want to know more and understand tango better, and my husband "just dances"
actually, after the second lecture, he thought: you want the beat, you'll get it. and thrashed her around the floor for the next tune (she also expected to be pushed into every step). 'oh, muy muy bien', she said smiling happily and kissed him warmly after the tanda.
@opendoor
i never heard about tango bravo, that would make sense, thanks for this info. can i ask about its source please?
opendoor
Forum Master
Certainly seemed like it but we'll leave it there then.
The best way.
Your husband "just dances" is a good attitude.
Many would say if you dance the music in the embrace
that's all you need to know. But from what you say here,
maybe your husband "knows" more than you credit him.
Good outcome too.
ok?
LoL!!!
Must be a language/translation problem then.
Or maybe it's all smoke (signals) and and mirrors.