Syllabus or Opens? Fastest path to becoming a high-level competitor

[Well Rounded]

What do you think is the most efficient path to becoming a high-level pro-am competitor? This assumes the pros available may change over time and may vary in skill.
I think working through a syllabus with some opens along the way is most effective. Eventually dancing all opens once the syllabus work is completed. To me, syllabus work helps ensure a well rounded education whereas learning solely through a series of open routines could leave gaps. You can also move more easily from one instructor to the other. There also seems to be a lot of institutional memory surrounding syllabus patterns.
Perhaps with proper foresight and planning, the open path could work if you had the right instructor but there’s so many variables.
Some people think syllabus competitors are not as serious in their pursuit of dance as open dancers so the competition will not be as fulfilling.
I look forward to your responses.

 

[lucia_l]

I don't really have a theory about the "fastest way", but my pro thinks doing both syllabus and open work is necessary. I've only done closed in competition because so far we've got Waltz and Tango open routines but haven't worked a Foxtrot or Viennese one. I could do singles in the two dances but want to wait until I have 4 open routines before I compete open.

 

[j_alexandra]

What do you think is the most efficient path to becoming a high-level pro-am competitor? This assumes the pros available may change over time and may vary in skill.
I think working through a syllabus with some opens along the way is most effective. Eventually dancing all opens once the syllabus work is completed. To me, syllabus work helps ensure a well rounded education whereas learning solely through a series of open routines could leave gaps. You can also move more easily from one instructor to the other. There also seems to be a lot of institutional memory surrounding syllabus patterns.
Perhaps with proper foresight and planning, the open path could work if you had the right instructor but there’s so many variables.
Some people think syllabus competitors are not as serious in their pursuit of dance as open dancers so the competition will not be as fulfilling.
I look forward to your responses.

What is a "high-level pro-am competitor?" I ask because your definition may be different from mine, so the paths to get to that goal may also differ.

 

[raindance]

I think the fastest way to get to a high level of open pro-am (for example, competing in the open divisions above Gold - not open bronze, open silver - and placing well in those open divisions in major comps in your age group) is to consistently work with a pro who has a track record of achieving what you're hoping for quickly with their students.

There is a pro in our region that has taken multiple ladies to open pro-am events, and they've done very well in just a few years with him. He does whatever syllabus stuff he thinks they need on their way to open, but doesn't try to check every box (by teaching every syllabus pattern) or make sure they've placed well at each syllabus level before moving them on. But he's an excellent technician, and an excellent teacher. He knows how to teach all the technique needed at the right time to make things work well and make his students look good every time he puts them on the floor, whatever level they're at right then. He has other ladies that work their way through the syllabus levels methodically. But the ones that want to go open fast, and are willing to put in the work with him get there fast.

If you don't have access to a pro like that, or can't identify one in your area, then I'm not sure there's one fastest path. I think a lot will depend on what pros you get to work with, in what order, and what their strengths and teaching strategies are. I think if it were me I would focus on building quality skills with each pro I had the chance to work with in a situation like that (with probably a lot of focus on syllabus and technique in the beginning years at least) and not worry about getting anywhere in particular the fastest.

 

[Well Rounded]

What is a "high-level pro-am competitor?" I ask because your definition may be different from mine, so the paths to get to that goal may also differ.

I'm not sure I thought about it. I just assumed the highest levels one could achieve as a pro-am competitor were the open levels - gold or above. As I understand it, the only place to progress to after the syllabus is opens. My knowledge of the upper echelons of pro-am competitive ballroom dancing is somewhat limited.

 

[Well Rounded]

I think the fastest way to get to a high level of open pro-am (for example, competing in the open divisions above Gold - not open bronze, open silver - and placing well in those open divisions in major comps in your age group) is to consistently work with a pro who has a track record of achieving what you're hoping for quickly with their students.

There is a pro in our region that has taken multiple ladies to open pro-am events, and they've done very well in just a few years with him. He does whatever syllabus stuff he thinks they need on their way to open, but doesn't try to check every box (by teaching every syllabus pattern) or make sure they've placed well at each syllabus level before moving them on. But he's an excellent technician, and an excellent teacher. He knows how to teach all the technique needed at the right time to make things work well and make his students look good every time he puts them on the floor, whatever level they're at right then. He has other ladies that work their way through the syllabus levels methodically. But the ones that want to go open fast, and are willing to put in the work with him get there fast.

If you don't have access to a pro like that, or can't identify one in your area, then I'm not sure there's one fastest path. I think a lot will depend on what pros you get to work with, in what order, and what their strengths and teaching strategies are. I think if it were me I would focus on building quality skills with each pro I had the chance to work with in a situation like that (with probably a lot of focus on syllabus and technique in the beginning years at least) and not worry about getting anywhere in particular the fastest.

Access to pros is one of the issues. There is only one studio in my area, and not many independent instructors outside of the studio. In the 10 years I've been attending the studio, there have been 8 male pros of varying skill levels and experience. Usually no more than 2 male pros working at the studio at any given time. This means starting over every time your pro leaves. Starting over is less complicated with the syllabus than with opens, in my opinion. I'm not in a particular hurry to get to a certain level, but dance is pricey and going back to the drawing board on a regular basis gets pricey.

 

[raindance]

The situation you are describing is pretty tough for working on goals, particularly trying for high goals quickly.

You can take different approaches to that sort of situation. If it were me, I would try to take charge of my own dancing and decide my own dance goals. And then continue to keep an eye out for ways that the available pros (now and in the future) can help me work towards those goals. And I would have to be prepared that there would be some times where it might not be possible to make meaningful progress on some goals (e.g. maybe no one currently available is suitable to be a pro-am partner in my preferred style, etc). At those times, decide what alternate or secondary goals to pursue with the available situation, or maybe take a break for a bit. Maybe work on a fun showcase, or work on social dance, or delve into some area of technique even though competing isn't a good option right then, etc.

I certainly agree going back to the drawing board repeatedly is not good, not fun, not time or money efficient. Picking the most commonly available styles or dances (e.g. don't try to become a standard specialist in a area that mostly tends to have smooth pros, or vice versa), and working through the most commonly used syllabus in your area might be a good tactic to be able to continue progressing over the years.

You could also look into traveling for lessons, though that will add costs, time, and other frustrations. The pro I mentioned above is a few hours away from me. I don't have the good health to be able to seriously pursue dance anymore. But if I did, traveling to work with him as often as I could would be more cost and time effective in terms of really making technical and performance progress in my dancing than spending more hours with anyone that's available closer to home. At least in the style that is his specialty.

 

[Mahasvira]

Actually, I think it truly bodes well.. in any case, it relies upon how we react to it.. obviously we need excitement without despair so they open up more freedoms for this issue...

 

[Well Rounded]

The situation you are describing is pretty tough for working on goals, particularly trying for high goals quickly.

You can take different approaches to that sort of situation. If it were me, I would try to take charge of my own dancing and decide my own dance goals. And then continue to keep an eye out for ways that the available pros (now and in the future) can help me work towards those goals. And I would have to be prepared that there would be some times where it might not be possible to make meaningful progress on some goals (e.g. maybe no one currently available is suitable to be a pro-am partner in my preferred style, etc). At those times, decide what alternate or secondary goals to pursue with the available situation, or maybe take a break for a bit. Maybe work on a fun showcase, or work on social dance, or delve into some area of technique even though competing isn't a good option right then, etc.

I certainly agree going back to the drawing board repeatedly is not good, not fun, not time or money efficient. Picking the most commonly available styles or dances (e.g. don't try to become a standard specialist in a area that mostly tends to have smooth pros, or vice versa), and working through the most commonly used syllabus in your area might be a good tactic to be able to continue progressing over the years.

You could also look into traveling for lessons, though that will add costs, time, and other frustrations. The pro I mentioned above is a few hours away from me. I don't have the good health to be able to seriously pursue dance anymore. But if I did, traveling to work with him as often as I could would be more cost and time effective in terms of really making technical and performance progress in my dancing than spending more hours with anyone that's available closer to home. At least in the style that is his specialty.

You must have read my mind. This is almost exactly the approach I have taken. I focused on the American Smooth and Rhythm Syllabus as those are the style most commonly danced and taught in my area. I've done several showcases. I even took lots of Standard lessons when there was a really good instructor at the studio.

Outside of the studio, I have taken group and private lessons and competed in Country Western. I have also regularly attended Lindy/Blues classes and events, as well as salsa and bachata classes and dances. All with a good deal of social dances mixed in.

I have adjusted my goals and activities according to the instruction and opportunities that were available.

Quite often it is suggested that dancing and competing opens would be more beneficial than completing the syllabus all the way through gold. I am currently working my way through the gold level. I have a hard time justifying the expense and complications of open choreography knowing that instructors change so often. I can only afford to compete once every 2 years or so. I was hoping to gain some insight as why some might see opens as more advantageous than syllabus, or vise versa.

 

[raindance]

In your situation, I think it is really more about what sort of dancing you enjoy doing and want to work on and master (and pay for!). Some people love open choreography, and can't wait to do it. Others can see the downsides (that choreographed piece can only be used for so long, and won't necessarily transfer well to other dance situations).

If you aren't drooling over other people's open routines, wishing you could do that, or do your personal version of it, I personally don't see a reason to pursue open routines if you're happy on your current path. If you get bored with syllabus, you can always have an open routine choreographed for a showcase, etc.

 

[Well Rounded]

If you get bored with syllabus, you can always have an open routine choreographed for a showcase, etc.

LOL I just did this. Not because I was bored, I just like doing showcases from time to time. Actually if I could afford it, I would do everything (syllabus, showcase, competitions, etc.) all the time.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

What do you think is the most efficient path to becoming a high-level pro-am competitor? This assumes the pros available may change over time and may vary in skill.
I think working through a syllabus with some opens along the way is most effective. Eventually dancing all opens once the syllabus work is completed. To me, syllabus work helps ensure a well rounded education whereas learning solely through a series of open routines could leave gaps. You can also move more easily from one instructor to the other. There also seems to be a lot of institutional memory surrounding syllabus patterns.
Perhaps with proper foresight and planning, the open path could work if you had the right instructor but there’s so many variables.
Some people think syllabus competitors are not as serious in their pursuit of dance as open dancers so the competition will not be as fulfilling.
I look forward to your responses.

I don't see much downside to going through the major syllabus categories. If you're good enough to be competitive in open, you should place out of the syllabus categories fairly quickly, even if you have to change pros now and then.

I do agree with those who say it's better if you can stick to a suitable pro consistently for a while, though.

 

[rels77]

How do you define High level competitor? Making open finals at huge comps? Making syllabus finals at huge comps?

ive won or placed in the top 3 at Ohio and USDC in bronze and silver in 3 styles. Then I’ve taken a pretty major break. But to get to open at a high level? It took me about 5 years of averaging 8 lessons a week and doing about 8 pro-am comps a year.

 

[Well Rounded]

How do you define High level competitor? Making open finals at huge comps? Making syllabus finals at huge comps?

ive won or placed in the top 3 at Ohio and USDC in bronze and silver in 3 styles. Then I’ve taken a pretty major break. But to get to open at a high level? It took me about 5 years of averaging 8 lessons a week and doing about 8 pro-am comps a year.

What you describe sounds like what I've envisioned that it would take to become competitive in opens.

 

[Arun Garg]

What you describe sounds like what I've envisioned that it would take to become competitive in opens.

This is pretty much it. Consistent daily work through the syllabus (not necessarily for the sake of learning figures, but rather for understanding mechanics within syllabus confines) over the course of many months/years is really the only way to prepare to be a serious open competitor. There’s a reason the syllabus exists…..