Tango Diaries

opendoor said:
or deliberately denigrate others
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That seems to come from those who believe theirs is the one, true, authentic, traditional way, even if it comes from some intermediate era, and all others are therefore 'wrong'.

Nevertheless, as with some styles of old, some should be dropped, as they're less popular, probably to be re-discovered in the recovery of some videos from obsolete server discs or backup.

I don't think any in social AT would want to go the formal ballroom definition route, so a consequence is multiple styles and variants, frequently personal. Aesthetics will change.
 
opendoor said:
But isn't that escapism for the sake of peace? As soon as you withdraw, you leave the field to those who use false definitions, lump everything together, or deliberately denigrate others. You can see for yourself!
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I haven't withdrawn, "we should leave this confusing terminology in the past" is itself a position.

Also, any active dancers haven't left the field since really the strongest argument for any point of view is in the dancing based on it.
 
opendoor said:
You don't know the facts: It was only with the arrival of Naveira, aka Nuevo, that things like technique, fundamentals, discipline, and systematic approach entered tango instruction! You're probably an unconscious Nuevo dancer yourself if you can judge the lack of technique in others. No one's ever told you!

That's a different matter, because it has so much more to do with the actual composition of dancers at an event. Upon closer analysis, the dancers you're talking about might not be neo- and nuevo-dancers at all. Often they are confused with contact and fusion dancers. I know this because, through my theater work, I use contact improvisation extensively on stage.

I feel vindicated in having started this style discussion: Nuevo is not something you can see from the outside; it is a path of training that is more noticeable from within and in its implementation with a partner. There are so many prejudices out there, we should talk about them more.
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You’re just nitpicking semantics.
Yes we all know the history of naveira and nuevo etc, and how they (and chicho) define nuevo is just a systematic way of talking about tango movements.
Obviously what everyone in this thread is talking about including me is “nuevo” tango events/dancers where the style of dance is much larger, often to alt music, with elasticity, more off-axis and break away movements, and also a bending of some grammar of tango that’s different than milonguero/salon style.
 
opendoor said:
This way of speaking can be changed. I repeat myself, it serves to devalue and exclude.
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Technically I suppose we should refer to 'neo', but to the big world outside AT it's 'nuevo' or 'alternative' - awaiting the next 'new' thing. 'Nuevo' wasn't seen as a style, but it's become that outside the Argentinian core.

But no one really cares, apart from a few involved in AT. Naviera, Frúmboli, Veron, Esbrez... So what? Although the moves they pioneered have been adapted for the social dance floor. So, yes, it has been devalued and some aspects have been excluded. But it hasn't really found a modern market except as 'alternative'. As @Rabbit said:
Rabbit said:
the 2000s "nuevo" look is also very dated, and only people that started back then still dance like that.
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and many are seen as 'posers' in the centre of the floor or failing navigation in the ronda. You can't change that impression, but you can incorporate some elements in normal social AT - and we move on.
 
JournalInTime said:
The issue here is that the music of so-called tango alternativo is being played, and that attracts people who dance tango, but also people who dance whatever is usually danced to that music, plus people who are aware that it's tango + other dances and want to dance fusion . . . and then a lot of traditional tango people identify this with tango nuevo. Except that "neo-tango" and alternative music has nothing to do with tango nuevo dance, and nuevo dance isn't really what those people are dancing, but a thing defined by Naveira, Salas, et al. So you end up with nuevo, a valid classification system, being associated with a random mixture of music and dances.
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I think you are describing fusion events. Thankfully we do not have any events marketed as tango that fit above description.
pianistamediano said:
I have never gone to any nuevo/alt events, nor do I feel any need or want to for that reason and more. Plus, I've listened to a few sample playlists, and it seems to me that it's almost everything goes with regards to music, which is too slapdash.
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In the past 10-15 years there is no “Nuevo” event. It dies a death long time back. The best is milonga where they switch between alternate tanda and tango tanda.

I have heard good alternative tandas. Last time was about 12-13 years back. Since then I have head music ranging from pop to neo tango under guise of “alternate” tanda. So yes I agree the music has become slapdash.

pianistamediano said:
Knowing who goes to these events is enough to put me off, and from what I hear, they often devolve into some vague interpretation of fusion dance that many dancers there will defend as their own personal, unique take on tango — even (especially?) when it's just really bad.
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Not familiar with above happening here, one of the largest tango scenes. I am guessing that fusion dancing (which started around 2013ish) has given space for those who like to do above. I haven’t seen anyone try to define it as tango. So there is still hope.
 
Miradamiranda said:
As long as the flashy moves still make sense musically,
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On social dance floor I can hardly remember a dance where flashy moves make sense musically. Because those who dance flashy then to do that for 80% to 100% of the time. If a flashy move is used like a salt in food, then it can fit musically on social dance floor.

In performances I have seen some where flashy moves did fit musically.
 
Bailango said:
On social dance floor I can hardly remember a dance where flashy moves make sense musically. Because those who dance flashy then to do that for 80% to 100% of the time. If a flashy move is used like a salt in food, then it can fit musically on social dance floor.

In performances I have seen some where flashy moves did fit musically.
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Of course it can make sense musically! I gather your and my definitions of flashy are separate things.
 
Rabbit said:
the 2000s "nuevo" look is also very dated, and only people that started back then still dance like that.
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You can't generalize like that, at least not in my city. The group that started with me between 1999 and 2001 is divided (as far as they are still around). Only a minority goes to alternative events. But the vast majority, myself included, has embraced every stylistic trend that was run across the floor. My cohort adapts and dances at the trendy milongas. And these are very well-behaved these days: ronda, codigos, cabeceo, CE.

And regarding the "nuevo look": At alternative milongas, you no longer see baggy pants or harem pants; everyone dresses less extravagantly, but more individually. And the people there are much younger and haven't experienced Nuevo and Neo at all.

But the look is still ingrained. At traditional milongas, I'm often asked if I'm a neo-dancer because I wear very wide pants. But I do that because I wear knee braces underneath.
 
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Dear Diary...

I'm still not interested in speculation about one or another interpretation of "authentic tango." Tango was originally a rustic dance for ordinary people; hardly anyone would want to dance it like that today. And I haven't personally experienced much of its more recent history.

I dance "close embrace," and at most events I attend, "close embrace" is implicitly or explicitly expected, but definitely by me. And yes, I prefer to dance tango to tango music. End of story.

Beyond that, my partner might ask for stylistic nuances. More upright posture, more dynamism, more musicality. I suspect that leans slightly towards the Mundial Style, but without her even knowing about it.
 
I've moved back to a city where there's only two good milongas a week, one of which my friend describes as being more serious, so not going there.

My first milonga, I spent over an hour sitting and ignoring everyone because the music was objectively shite — who the hell plays the depressing Rodriguez tangos, mediocre D'Agostino tangos, the weirdest Tanturi instrumental tanda I've ever heard AND at least five or six obscure versions of well-loved songs??? I can't believe he messed up the D'Arienzo/Maure tanda too with a very strange selection of songs. It was very, very evident that people weren't enjoying his music. Half the room was sitting all the time, and only two couples were dancing the last milonga tanda, up until he played a good song and another stood up to dance. I don't like naming names on the internet, but he was just way too unbearable. Don't go to a milonga if a guy named Lee Kim Soon is DJing.

I blame this guy for every follower there thinking I'm stuck up. Plus, well, the average age is about 1.5 decades older, so I have very few peers to interact with. Thank goodness I have a few friends there.

Fun times ahead, lads. :)
 
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