Tango Diaries

[Bailango]

At one of other events I was seated with a friend. She is a follower who also likes to lead. This is the event that sometimes frustrates me when it comes to cabaceo because people act like cabaceo is an unknown.

She was trying to cabaceo and not at all being successful. I kept telling her it was not going to work and if she wanted to dance she had to either walkaceo or ask verbally. She refused saying she will do the neither. Incidentally my stance is also the same.

 

[Bailango]

If I were right behind him, I would be constantly advancing and timing my turns so that my back would be presented to him whenever he moved against the line of dance. Ideally, I'd be limiting his movement as much as humanly possible without disrupting the flow of the ronda too. He can collide against me all he wants, I have back muscles to spare. I see no reason why this is wrong; the old milongueros have done the same too.

It might be fun to mirror his movements too; watch how fast his face turns sour when I advance exactly as fast as he does, and leave him with no more (or no less) space to go backwards than any one couple on the pista should have!

I do exactly above with the offenders. The same with those who are pausing or not moving causing traffic jam. I will start closing the gap aggressively. At the last milonga, this dude infront of me finally gave up and got off the ronda and went inside in the middle of the floor. Felt so good to have him leave the spot

The problem is two-fold — on the organisers' side, that organisers do not care, are afraid to police dancers for malicious floorcraft for fear of the consequences (whether they be an average, unknown dancer or famous professional), or are friends with him. On the students' side, they are quite obviously oblivious, stupid, or simply do not care. If he didn't have students, his behaviour would be less arrogant.



Case in point. Although to be fair, those students were simply imitating their teacher and ignoring the disrespectful and disruptive nature of his actions.

 

[TTanguero]

Sorry, I do not agree.

I know

 

[Rabbit]

To be fair, as I just implied, I do get compliments when I make something difficult work in a tight space. It's just mostly from observing leaders, not followers I'm dancing with.

Yeah, my point is that it's a subject mostly appreciated by leaders since they're responsible for most of the navigation. Followers generally have their focus elsewhere

 

[pianistamediano]

They can keep their feet on the ground in a crowd – there's no such thing as a forced boleo or other high leg movement, so it's always a proposition that can be toned down if it's unsafe. They can do their half of keeping the abrazo compact by not sliding off to one side or sticking out their elbow. They can keep all steps within the leader's frame. I consider all of these things to be basic skills for non-beginner followers.

Plenty of followers would consider that mansplaining or repression of self-expression.

Also yes. I had that conversation last Friday. "Well, yes, I know he's a dangerous leader who breaks all the rules of floorcraft, but I don't like to say 'no' to him." I made a mental note to invite that follower a lot less often, which will matter to her because she seems to like dancing with me a lot.

Good on you. I would that I had enough choice of followers to be able to behave as such, but thankfully, I don't recall my regular followers dancing with anyone with malicious floorcraft. I do tend to avoid dangerous followers though, and followers who dance with those leaders.

One more yes. I'd say that 80% or more of the time, it's status-linked. With leaders who don't outweigh me by 5 stone and/or use their followers as shields, I've started to be unapologetic about my refusal to tolerate bad behavior even if they're the regional so-and-so champion, beloved partner of 123 tangueras, and Mr. Popular. Several have started to enter the floor behind and never ahead of me.

It speaks volumes about the fact that they're not tattling about it to the organisers — probably just grumbling about it to their followers. I highly doubt they're singing the same tune to their own students either.

They definitely know it's wrong, they just don't care. I've danced in the ronda next to well-known, well-respected (at least in Europe) teachers and performers and they're way more unassuming and respectful than minor professionals like Mr. Ego.

 

[pianistamediano]

I bet almost none of those attending these workshops are advanced followers. Rather they are even good intermediates.

P.S. - we are generally leader heavy scene.

That's... well, I'd call that unadvisable. But female leaders who have been following for years already do have an advantage over beginner/newer male leaders. Not that your scene needs more leaders, but that's still probably going to push out a few male leaders.

Maybe those followers are trying out leading because they feel that they're not getting enough dances? Even over here in London, with generally more followers than leaders at any one milonga, the actually good followers are still very much in demand.

(Ignoring the followers who are teachers/professionals, of course; they don't exist for me.)

 

[itwillhappen]

The problem is two-fold — on the organisers' side, that organisers do not care, are afraid to police dancers for malicious floorcraft for fear of the consequences (whether they be an average, unknown dancer or famous professional), or are friends with him.

In general, we in Northern Europe (Continental Europe?) do not tolerate this kind of intervention from the organizer. We would not even accept it if he wanted to assign us a table or seat. The organizer would have to act quite charismatic or tricky to achieve anything. The exception to this is Encuentros - with the known positive and negative effects.

Fortunately, we are a rich region and there is often enough floor space. I have come to terms quite well with being a one-eyed among the blind at festivals. Even leading musically is a remarkable approach at such events.

 

[pianistamediano]

I have come to terms quite well with being a one-eyed among the blind at festivals. Even leading musically is a remarkable approach at such events.

Which is why I rarely attend festivals unless I know my friends will be there.

For what they cost and the amount of time and attention given to performers, marathons are much more worth my time and money anyway.

 

[opendoor]

In general, we in Northern Europe (Continental Europe?) do not tolerate this kind of intervention from the organizer...

Yes, there are cultural differences. But in serious cases, intervention is also carried out in Europe.

But the basic problem is that the organizers are usually also the local dance teachers, if you know what I mean. It is also now common for so-called "hosts", who are usually long-standing students, to welcome guests and remind unknown dancers to the common codigos.

 

[itwillhappen]

Which is why I rarely attend festivals unless I know my friends will be there.

For what they cost and the amount of time and attention given to performers, marathons are much more worth my time and money anyway.

In theory, I absolutely agree with you. In practice, I have to say that I was at least as satisfied at festivals as I was at marathons/encuentros. I think it's because of the implicit quality expectations, the hunt for very good tandas. Which then results in status striving, snobbery and cliques.

For me, travel costs are the main thing, so supporting some performers or musicians in precarious employment doesn't hurt me much. The time lost for the performances, on the other hand, does, but then I just go to the bar and have a nice beer.

 

[itwillhappen]

Yes, there are cultural differences. But in serious cases, intervention is also carried out in Europe.

But the basic problem is that the organizers are usually also the local dance teachers, if you know what I mean. It is also now common for so-called "hosts", who are usually long-standing students, to welcome guests and remind unknown dancers to the common codigos.

Whether they are teachers or not, hosts are usually well connected in their scene. They are an important role model and reference point, and there may be a general announcement to please dance in the ronda, but it seems to me that direct addressing of individual participants is very rare. The delinquents are not aware of any guilt, it is just their pattern to dance, otherwise they can hardly enjoy dancing.

 

[Bailango]

That's... well, I'd call that unadvisable. But female leaders who have been following for years already do have an advantage over beginner/newer male leaders. Not that your scene needs more leaders, but that's still probably going to push out a few male leaders.

I don’t really care if it pushes out newer male dancers. People are free to dance what they want.

Maybe those followers are trying out leading because they feel that they're not getting enough dances?

No. Often the followers trying do leading are ones who get more dances as followers. The ones who get less don’t try to lead. That is my observation. There is nothing wrong in my books to want to lead.

My point was more about the fact increased workshops being offered is making more followers trying to lead. For instructors it is new opportunity to make money. As I previously said there is not a single workshop offered for “following for advance leaders”. Wouldn’t you think there should be

 

[Bailango]

Whether they are teachers or not, hosts are usually well connected in their scene. They are an important role model and reference point, and there may be a general announcement to please dance in the ronda, but it seems to me that direct addressing of individual participants is very rare. The delinquents are not aware of any guilt, it is just their pattern to dance, otherwise they can hardly enjoy dancing.

Not in milongas but at the practicas the hosts (who may host or dance at milongas) have pulled aside the offenders when I have grumbled about the milonga behavior.


The point is for the host to make a note. Then find right place and time to talk about it with the offenders. If local instructors are at a milonga they too should watch around so that if someone comes to their class they know what tell them.

I see a number of dancers have with long time bad habits, go to certain classes, and yet no improvement with their habit. Those few who are able to correct a bad habit generally go on to became good dancers.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Yes, there are cultural differences. But in serious cases, intervention is also carried out in Europe.

But the basic problem is that the organizers are usually also the local dance teachers, if you know what I mean. It is also now common for so-called "hosts", who are usually long-standing students, to welcome guests and remind unknown dancers to the common codigos.

Or they could hand out those descriptive floorcraft cards that show navigation do's and don't's, etc. Very useful. There's info on both sides.

 

[pianistamediano]

Had a nice and relaxing rant with the same friend at a milonga last night and tonight about the current state of music being played at central London milongas.

So we generally agreed on these points (there are plenty more, I've just forgotten):

1. D'Arienzo is extremely overrepresented, with an emphasis on '50 Echagüe. I hear at least 4-5 tandas over an average night, a D'Arienzo milonga every other milonga, with the occasional vals.
2. Tanturi/Campos seems to be a perennial favourite, as is Castillo (Pocas Palabras, how I detest thee!).
3. DJs here hate Di Sarli, or use him as an ersatz D'Arienzo. Think Corazón (Rufino) or Siete Palabras. Rarely Podestá, and it's always the depressing ones, not the sweet ones like La capilla blanca. Even rarer are the instrumentals. Peak Di Darli, and the heathens think it's suited only for beginner classes!
4. Same for Fresedo. Only the most rhythmical of Fresedo gets played.
5. Troilo/Marino & Floreal Ruiz and Pugliese/Moran & Chanel get played at every single milonga, and it's always the same few songs.
6. Biagi valses are in vogue again; it's always Dichas que vivi and El último adiós.
6a. I have no idea why '40s Biagi vocals are played time and time again, when the best Biagi is obviously his instrumentals and Duval.
7.. It's almost a perfect echo chamber, in that the vast majority of DJs copy each other, or play almost the same tandas again and again.
8. In general, there is an extreme preference for rhythmical music. It is the same plodding 4/4 beat in the majority of tandas, with little to no room for depth of interpretation. The music is geared towards the external and physicality. Even the few DJs I like who generally play good tandas are influenced by this.

Thankfully, we had an excellent visiting DJ from Taiwan tonight who leaned towards the melodic side of things, but still maintained an excellent balance. The tandas were well composed — even the ones I didn't like — and each tanda naturally progressed into the next. I even enjoyed dancing the most playful Biagi vals tanda I've ever heard, and I'm annoyed that I hadn't come up with it before.

Unfortunately, he played an (admittedly good) D'Arienzo/Maure tanda last. I would have forgiven him if it included Amarras, but no.

My last tanda was a great mix of Muy Suave (Domingo Federico), Porteñisimo (late Caló), the Brahms Fantasía (Símbolo Maderna) and Pescadores del perlas (Sassone). Almost the way I would have arranged it, but my preference would have been to end with Muy Suave.