Tango Diaries

[Bailango]

Dear diary...
...I was recently at a milonga that, apart from the live music, was really bad. The journey was too long, the milonga too short (4 hours in total), the search for a parking space was exhausting, the floor was far too dull, the floorcraft was inadequate for the space, the dancing skills were quite "diverse".

Most milongas I go to have about 3 hours dance time and two hour roundtrip journey.

And of course a lot of the guys moved themselves in front of their desired partner during the cortina and invited,

Fairly common. Not to ask during cortina. But to position themself in front of a lady during the cortina. Then ask as soon as the cortina ends. Few bad apples will ask during the cortina itself.

and the women seemed to have equal rights.

Women here don’t ask unless they know you. Only a few will ask.

I couldn't get a mirada with her later on.

Which “her”. You are referring to two “her? you do this often. It is only clear own mind
But this being a diary may be that is okay.

It's not uncommon that all of my target partners have their focus elsewhere, and quite a few of them don't even want to dance with me at all, and that's just the way it is. I was at an event the weekend before where that worked out, and I'll be at two milongas next weekend where that will works out.

You meant the event the weekend before and two milongas next weekend will also be repeat of the bolded ?

 

[itwillhappen]

Which “her”. You are referring to two “her? you do this often. It is only clear own mind
But this being a diary may be that is okay.

I meant the woman, who I didn't even look at when she tried to invite me.
My preferred partner, with whom I went there, recognizes communication faults and reacts accordingly.

You meant the event the weekend before and two milongas next weekend will also be repeat of the bolded ?

Yes, why not, but I was referring to occasional situations. If I have the feeling that I don't dance well at a milonga, for whatever reason, then I go there less often or not at all. Basically, the tangueras are free to create this feeling in me or not.


Dear diary...
...I have to laugh when I hear that female managers prefer following in tango to relax from their everyday work. Managers get trained not to try to be better than their specialists if at all possible. Even if they get it, they could have done a better job of managing to create an environment in which the specialists function as well as possible. But they will probably need new specialists soon. And if they don't get it, it will end in disaster anyway.

Of course, my preferred "manager" also learns to lead in her sisterhood, that's a no-brainer. But first and foremost, she continues to manage her environment. It's obvious that tangueros can be lured with attractive women and interesting workshops. (It's nice to know what a better world should look like, but it doesn't help much.) Recognizing this, she tries to create such an environment.

I'm also learning with interest how to put together a team for that. In the messenger group for the workshops, her #2 and #3 quickly appear, attractive and intelligent women who can dance well anyway. Each is decoy and manager for one target tanguero. And then there are some more couples, because if a team only consists of top people, things can quickly blow up in your face.

P.S.: There is of course always at least an emotional level in addition to the more technical point of view outlined here.

 

[Rabbit]

...I have to laugh when I hear that female managers prefer following in tango to relax from their everyday work.

I've heard it too, but I wonder if it could really be an important reason for role preference, it seems to me that there would be more male followers if it was.

 

[opendoor]

...I have to laugh when I hear that female managers prefer following in tango to relax from their everyday work..

I assisted a dancing psychologist twice (as a lead) at her tango workshops for management personnel. That was really interesting. Male managers in particular were able to learn something.

 

[Bailango]

Male managers in particular were able to learn something.

What was it?

 

[Bailango]

...I have to laugh when I hear that female managers prefer following in tango to relax from their everyday work.

Not sure what there is to laugh about it. I know first hand a few women who are in high stress job where they have to make decisions, who prefer not to have do the same in evening. Including making a decision on what to order off the menu. Yes I know followers who have that type of day job who say during dancing they just want to follow.

Why should it be laughable or surprising that the women do prefer to follow

I've heard it too, but I wonder if it could really be an important reason for role preference, it seems to me that there would be more male followers if it was.

Irrespective gender equality etc, there is still a very strong empirical evidence that based on their gender people are disposed to prefer certain role. Whether it is social conditioning or genetics, does not really matter. The difference is people are freely choosing the role. It only happens that role aligns with the historical gender role.

We like to believe women are becoming more like men and men are becoming more like women. That is still not the case. Exceptions existed 100 and 400 years back. That number has increased a lot. Yet majority still prefers adhering to a role on their own free choice.

 

[pianistamediano]

people are freely choosing the role

I think this is the salient point; it seems to me that a lot of people on the political right want things to stagnate, while a lot of people on the left want everything to combine and mix and amalgamate into some dreary, grey combination that manages to preserve only the most monotonous parts of the roles. The most important thing is that people get to freely choose their role — as long as they accept the consequences of their decisions, of course, whether good or bad.

 

[opendoor]

What was it?

Managers often analyse first and then implement it. With lead-following, however, both phases must be coherently intertwined. Decision and movement could be better synchronised for some participants.

 

[itwillhappen]

Why should it be laughable or surprising that the women do prefer to follow

If you have a stressful job, you can continue it with tango or do the exact opposite, we experience both. I just find the reasoning funny. Yes, the gender-typical role itself saves energy and time.

But I meant high potentials, trained and recognized managers. They see more clearly what their goals are, what they have to do to achieve them, what their free resources are, how their environment will react. Ultimately, it is a very difficult skill to develop the people around you so that they perform well. Much more difficult than learning to lead or follow or philosophizing about it.

 

[TTanguero]

Ultimately, it is a very difficult skill to develop the people around you so that they perform well. Much more difficult than learning to lead or follow or philosophizing about it.

Honestly the best managers I ever had, they had two skills:
1. Get out of the way of their people doing their jobs
2. Keep the rest of the management out of the way of their people doing their jobs

 

[Bailango]

If you have a stressful job, you can continue it with tango or do the exact opposite, we experience both. I just find the reasoning funny. Yes, the gender-typical role itself saves energy and time.

But I meant high potentials, trained and recognized managers. They see more clearly what their goals are, what they have to do to achieve them, what their free resources are, how their environment will react. Ultimately, it is a very difficult skill to develop the people around you so that they perform well. Much more difficult than learning to lead or follow or philosophizing about it.

I don’t know what you are leading at. What part of the reasoning is funny?

Professional and personal lives are different. People tend to live them differently. You are conflating personality with responsibility.

 

[itwillhappen]

I don’t know what you are leading at. What part of the reasoning is funny?

Professional and personal lives are different. People tend to live them differently. You are conflating personality with responsibility.

I don't believe that personalities are often different in professional and private life, apart from jobs in front of the camera, maybe. Two personalities are pretty exhausting. The story about the mafia killer who is a caring family man at home is more of a movie story in my opinion.

And someone who handles big projects at work won't be completely overwhelmed by the responsibility of whether the next giro in tango should go right or left.
So everyone should lead or follow in tango as they want, but not every reason for doing so has to be valid in my eyes.

 

[Bailango]

I don't believe that personalities are often different in professional and private life, apart from jobs in front of the camera, maybe.

You didn’t read what I said. I didn’t say personalities are different. I said you are conflating personality with responsibilities. You are mixing them up. Someone may not be Type A (whatever that means), but might have significant responsibility at work. It won’t be surprising if such a person doesn’t want to tax their brain for making decisions after work. Nothing funny about that.

Two personalities are pretty exhausting. The story about the mafia killer who is a caring family man at home is more of a movie story in my opinion.

Let’s not get into tangents.

And someone who handles big projects at work won't be completely overwhelmed by the responsibility of whether the next giro in tango should go right or left.
So everyone should lead or follow in tango as they want, but not every reason for doing so has to be valid in my eyes.

It is not about getting overwhelmed. It is about conserving energy. Some people for example don’t like driving though they are good drivers and it doesn’t overwhelm them. You cannot project what yourself think or do on other people.

The fact that you think many followers who have responsible or high stress professional jobs, say they prefer to follow so that they don’t have to make decisions after work - according to you is not valid in your eyes. I find that wrong on so many levels.

 

[itwillhappen]

You didn’t read what I said.

How can you know that? Normally gifted people could at best see that I did not understand what they were trying to express.

I didn’t say personalities are different. I said you are conflating personality with responsibilities. You are mixing them up. Someone may not be Type A (whatever that means), but might have significant responsibility at work. It won’t be surprising if such a person doesn’t want to tax their brain for making decisions after work. Nothing funny about that.

Everyone can and will do it however they want. Some people want to tax their brain because they are used to it, others don't. Although the statement that you don't have to tax your brain for the follower role might not generally be seen that way.

It is not about getting overwhelmed. It is about conserving energy. Some people for example don’t like driving though they are good drivers and it doesn’t overwhelm them. You cannot project what yourself think or do on other people.

The fact that you think many followers who have responsible or high stress professional jobs, say they prefer to follow so that they don’t have to make decisions after work - according to you is not valid in your eyes. I find that wrong on so many levels.

Someone who stocks shelves in a discount store or works in road construction will not have an abundance of energy in the evening. But yes, a manager is better trained to think about what she wants and to distribute her energy sensibly. And as mentioned above, there is no causal connection; the decision can be either way, at least for women.

 

[itwillhappen]

Dear diary...
...just before the year ends I found what I think was - for me - the best regular milonga of the year, likely of all my years.

Of course it's in a pleasant, large dance hall with space to move behind the tables and an adequate sound system. But the background is that it's run by the an encuentro organizer in the region. That attracts obviously the - for me - right people, so that a critical mass of good dancers can prevail. It was comparatively rare for leaders to push themselves onto the dance floor without first making eye contact with the next leader, or for someone not to at least apologize on the fly after contact with another couple.

Of course, at a larger high-key milonga not everyone dances with everyone, God forbid, but at least I understand the participants. A short dry spell at the beginning is normal for a new milonga, and it's the job of my friends from other events to bridge that. And then it went quite well, also because partners showed up with whom I sometimes register for encuentros.

The driving to the milonga was usually too long, 3 hours each way, but now that I'm in early retirement I can use more resources than before and combine it with other milongas there. In general, resources are very useful in tango in certain situations, dancing itself is often overrated. I'm already starting to plan sparse events in case a weekend date with a dance partner doesn't work out. And together with the connections of my preferred local dance partner, new doors open itself anyway.