Mr. Moustachio
Active Member
Why not just step left and right in place?
Tango Diaries
- Thread starter Bailango
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Mr. Moustachio
Active Member
What tango movement involves no physical hold?
I said 'exercise', which was the objective of the sequence! The purpose is to lead with the torso but not the arms. For the follower, to follow the lead's torso, but not feel pushed by the leader's arms. And for both, to have hips aligned. Push-pull with the arms can occur even in a practice hold**. If you try it, then you really have to think what you should be doing for leading/following to 'propose' that the follower should move, or stop, or slow down. If you try it with giros, then try changing direction. It obviously helps if it's a well known sequence, and the 8CB incorporates all the directions of movement.
**Recent workshop involving the salida del cuarenta, I asked a pair of 'good' dancers how it had been as it was a new step for them. She remarked that he'd been pushing her into position with his arms. My wife occasionally notes that I've been over-using an arm on some new move we've been working on.
Because you miss a great deal of nuance without more steps, for example the timing of the cross to a lyrical piece of music (e.g. later Di Sarli) compared with the fixed beat of D'Arienzo, or length of step.
opendoor
Forum Master
Bravo, you seem to be a great fan of Tango nuevo! Exactly this proposed Gustavo Naveira 35 years ago as a new didactical method. And already a lot of dance schools follow his Sistema progressiva.
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A lot of times it actually begins like that (and with walking), and that’s good for more simple drills and concepts. But as it dives deeper it’s better to simulate an actual flow of the dance, i.e circulating around the room with different dynamics of the dance. With the 8CB you can adjust a lot of variables to make it look a lot different, such as adding rotation to specific parts of the pattern to make you do a full 360 during the whole sequence.
Mr. Moustachio
Active Member
I had an exercise with the same purpose. I held my hands behind my back, and the girl placed her hands on my shoulders. I led ochos.
Not as effective
Follower gets message through arms; leader over-exagerates shoulders rather than using torso.
Mr. Moustachio
Active Member
Well, in that case, just do the cross. Eliminate steps 1, 2, 6, 7, and 8 of the basic.
I haven't seen anyone do the basic in a milonga in the past 20 years. I started tango in '94. We all did the basic step -- because we didn't know any better. We all chained memorized figures. Each figure started with steps 1 and 2 of the basic and ended with steps 6, 7, and 8 of the basic. If you've ever watched beginners learn the basic, you'll know how difficult it is to memorize 8 steps at a time.
Mr. Moustachio
Active Member
Go to a practica. Find a leader who leads with his arms. Get him to hold his hands behind his back. Start him with leading forward ochos. Tell me if he doesn't look better.
That is possible - see discussions on 'spiral cross', but it's limiting. Imagine trying to express some great literature, or emotion, or art, with 2 words, say
Or Pugliese with one element - a cross. Maybe even 8 steps are insufficient to express that?
There are arguments about whether or not you can teach musicality or interpretation. Probably not, but you can show where to start. And interpretation is your own. It's still easier if someone points the way.
I had the advantage of not learning that way - the 8CB came later and was simply like ballet positions as a start point for something else. I accept it, but I dislike its use for beginners as a basic step because their interpretation is limited and it's hackneyed. But then any other 'basic' (e.g. ocho, cross) can become the same. It's only when novices move on that they develop. But, fortunately, they're let out into the wild with a limited communication vocabulary. Some continue to develop; many don't and accept 'good enough'. That's not 'wrong'.
Some do; most don't. Maybe some get the idea. Looks like some deviant Irish dancing.
Why do it if there's something better?
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
None of instructors I had ever taught this method.
opendoor
Forum Master
Why do you learn from instructors? I described and explained a similar method here 10 years ago.
But you knew it? Do you experiment with the movement when at practica or at milonga? Or if you watch someone else doing it then try to adopt.
One of the fun of watching other people dance when sitting out a tanda is seeing some interesting movements. Once in a while there might be one, that I will steal.