Tango Diaries

[Bailango]

Languages generally develop many words to describe something similar that mean something to the person. Once upon a time 'man' and 'woman' seemed adequate, but those no longer work in many cultures.

I have been meaning to write about this particular part.

Having discussed this multiple times over the years with many different people, I think “man” and “woman” is most workable in the context of the partner dance. The rest of the labels either fall short by creating wrong notion of what the role implies or in trying to be politically correct introduce labels that are one dimensional (only emphasize one attribute of the role).

Keep it simple. There is a man’s role and a woman’s role in partner dancing. That’s how the partner dancing evolved. Too bad that it offends “politically correct” sensibilities of many (mainly in the western world). There is nothing stopping a woman from doing man’s role.

This reminds me of a story that many might have heard. A rich man goes to an island and sees a young man resting/lazying under a tree. The story is a short conversation/dialogue between the two. To paraphrase the rich man asks the young guy what he is doing and then explains the virtue of working hard, how working hard begets money, yada yada. The young man asks “so?”. The rich visitor replies “so with money you earn, you get to enjoy life”. The young man retorts - “so what do you think am I doing now”. An unnecessary round about way to get to same results.

 

[Bailango]

For example, if you lead a turn around you, your proposal might suggest four steps while the follower might respond with eight double-time ones. Same result, same timing, doesn't interfere with your lead at all.

Actually your proposal is only about turn around and not the number of steps

 

[Rabbit]

What your coach refers to as “intention” is what I call “projection”. The followers’s part is “response” to the said “projection” (or “intention”). If someone were to ask me what is “projection”, I would say “it is conveying of intent of the direction of the movement, prior to actual execution of the movement”. That still may not be clear. What is “execution”. Does the movement start with the “intention”?

I think either "intention" or "preparation" is more accurate than "projection" to describe what I actually focus on. The movement starts from preparation of the supporting leg.

 

[Brummbaer]

Having discussed this multiple times over the years with many different people, I think “man” and “woman” is most workable in the context of the partner dance.

The words used have to have some meaning within your culture, or context of [partner] dance, or your understanding of another culture and its history. That culture may be Argentinian teaching European, Asian or Anerican. If you become sufficiently 'advanced', or aware of alternative cultures, other terms may work - or even convey a deeper meaning.

Videos, even AI VR, pictures, diagrams, words, learning the other role, etc, have to communicate something to that person, or couple.

 

[brujo]

Also depends on how homogeneous your culture is. If you’re teaching in Korean in Seoul you can probably assume that everyone in the class has a pretty similar world view vs say a more diverse place like New York City where you can’t assume backgrounds of your audience except for the fact they all understand English.

I feel this a little bit in dance. When I go to a fusion event in Portland and give someone a lead that will result in an ocho, sometimes they interpret this as a blues or salsa side step, more often than not I’ll get a ocho from anyone with a tango background and very surprisingly I’ve gotten a lot of ballet, contemporary dance or contact improvisation responses where the legs or stretches appear in a really cool and surprising way.

The thing about culture is that it changes too. It is really interesting to hear about how boleos have become more technical or inspired by ballet or how twenty years ago bent knees in tango with tons of foot stuff was the default in a lot of places.

 

[opendoor]

I would like to hear from a follow who doesn’t like projection and why. I haven’t heard a single follower complaint about it..

Nor did I, except Miradamiranda ! And she didn't complain on the dance floor, she did it here on DF.

 

[Brummbaer]

Also depends on how homogeneous your culture is.

And at this point the Mixed Tandas thread needs to move here.

Interesting how we 'like' some bits of Argentine culture, but not others

 

[TTanguero]

Actually your proposal is only about turn around and not the number of steps

Sometimes it is only "Let's turn in this direction at this pace until this point," other times it is "Let's do that in four components" by which I'm thinking of the follower's steps, which was the example I gave.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Nor did I, except Miradamiranda ! And she didn't complain on the dance floor, she did it here on DF.

Huh…. As far as I remember from when we were chopping that topic to bits and pieces back when, my statement was about how unsatisfying it is as a follower when a leader gives me a controlling attitude as if if I’m merely a puppet.

 

[opendoor]

..merely a puppet.

The relation isn't right. The context was that you're always on the dance floor, while I'm only a fraction of it. And when I dance, I want to interpret the music alone. That leaves over more than 85% to you. I only want to lead the remaining 15% exclusively (i.e., remotely control the followers' movements). I'm being extremely modest.

 

[brujo]

Dear diary,

Went to my second big festival. The first one since I started taking tango seriously. Overall it was fun to dance at the mixers with a ton of different people and go to practicas where I got to follow a ton of super fun people.

But at the milongas there was this super weird vibe. It felt that a lot of tandas with the more advanced folks I have never danced with before was an audition. You had to show them you could dance and even then had a follow just immediately stiffen up, shove her arm straight to create distance and say thank you at the end of the song and run away like I had just murdered a puppy in front of her eyes.

I had a bunch of really fun dances with people I knew. Some with folks I didn’t. It was good to see a lot of faces I haven’t seen in a while. Was also the first Milonga where I was led by a bunch of super cool ladies. But does this sense of not ever being technical enough ever stop?

 

[itwillhappen]

But does this sense of not ever being technical enough ever stop?

Since you create it within yourself, you would also have to stop it yourself.
So you feel an audition by women, while you don't allow yourself to audit them?

 

[Brummbaer]

But does this sense of not ever being technical enough ever stop?

Yes. At some point your objectives change and 'good enough' is ok. But you don't want to let your existing skills slip, so 'coaching' becomes more significant than general lessons or workshops to extend vocabulary. For some the objective wasn't necessarily the dance, so 'good enough' comes early.

And, unless you're known already, it's always an audition - hence followers need to actively work to get dances rather than ironing chairs and talking. Culturally leaders can take the initiative, but they may not be accepted in some competition for dance partners where other options exist.

 

[itwillhappen]

But at the milongas there was this super weird vibe. It felt that a lot of tandas with the more advanced folks I have never danced with before was an audition. You had to show them you could dance and even then had a follow just immediately stiffen up, shove her arm straight to create distance and say thank you at the end of the song and run away like I had just murdered a puppy in front of her eyes.

Women, in particular, often feel that they can't find enough dance partners within their everyday community which meet their standards. And when they're at an event, they try to compensate for this. Especially if their feet hurt, they'd rather sit than dance "just normally". Their ego sometimes even tricks them into believing they have a kind of right to "extended self-defense". That's something to keep in mind.

Just last month, I went to an event in a wider area where I wasn't connected well. And since I didn't dance any better there than at good local milongas and nearby events, I simply won't be going there next year. It's really that simple.

 

[pianistamediano]

Was also the first Milonga where I was led by a bunch of super cool ladies. But does this sense of not ever being technical enough ever stop?

You'll look for and desire different things in a tanda partner over the course of your life; you'll lack certain things, you'll have an abundance of other things. Not being X enough, being too Y — It will always happen, and you get used to it. What you seek in others may not materialise, and what they seek in you may not materialise either. It's life.

(Granted, that feeling might reduce over time! It certainly has for me, given all the time and energy I've spent on my body.)