Tango Diaries

[Brummbaer]

At the end, I asked with the world-renowned teacher and performer what the corresponding new role of the leader would be. The answer was essentially: "do less, listen more".

Is that new? Seems like it's always been the case where the leader wants to 'show off' the follower, and also to minimise energy expenditure in your dance. Male leaders usually get the praise; but the female follower frequently does the hard work - and with a smile, and in high heels. Is this suddenly some great revelation to leaders?

I'll concede that there's a transition for both roles in the progression from beginner, through novice, to intermediate, to some measure of 'advanced'.

 

[Brummbaer]

However, the tango-style waves are somewhat staggered in time across different regions. Therefore, the head of this animal will rise again somewhere.

I think it's already breeding - particularly linked to 'ceroc' freestyle type events where there's sometimes a 'tango' room - and leading to an 'alternative' milonga. Perhaps not 'nuevo' as historically proposed, but considered 'new' as such and in need of another descriptor. Usually requiring different skills to traditional social AT.

 

[pianistamediano]

At some point, doesn't "do less, listen more" devolve into reading followers' minds?

 

[opendoor]

..multi-day musicality workshop.. equal participation in the dance, and so on.. with the world-renowned teacher and performer..

It must have been an escenario stylist. Everything comes back around, like in fashion. Until the turn of the millennium, my city was 100% escenario. And escenario's motto is cooperation between leader and follow. When the milonguero style spread, the veteran dancers perceived it as a bitter setback in terms of role equality. I understand, "listen more" is not aimed at music, its aimed at the dance partner.

 

[Brummbaer]

At some point, doesn't "do less, listen more" devolve into reading followers' minds?

And vice versa. More communicating to act as a partnership.

But there's also an element of allowing the partner to do something - whether that's leading or following. And also achieving something with less effort.

 

[itwillhappen]

The neo-tango scene has been home to experienced and long-serving dancers who are body-orientated, master of on- and off-axis movement, can dissociate and show a extreme degree of flexibility. There simply are only very few “easier for beginners“ around. There still is no significant trend towards rejuvenation in that scene. And I still constantly watch the footage, I know several neo-organizers, and my former girlfried ist a heavy neo-marathon addict.

There have always been, and still are, the talented pioneers who pave the way; and behind them, the masses, with limited talent and resources, trying to have some fun. Perhaps it won't be "Neo" or "Escenario" that make a comeback, but rather "Street Tango", maybe with a touch of "Bachata Sensual"? Ultimately, though, it makes little difference to the masses; the main thing is that they can somehow dance themselves into a flow with limited complexity and effort.

Secondly, there's a significant overlap with the solo dance community. You're seriously underestimating their technical skills. Prior to judging, please try participating in Contact Improvisation or 5-Rhythms Dance.

Oh, someone recently presented Contact Improvisation at a private practica. And many years ago, I participated in a TheatroTango workshop by Jorge Aquista. It's definitely too difficult for the general public, and you have to keep an eye out to see if someone's rolling around on the floor.

 

[opendoor]

…More communicating to act as a partnership..

I find the approach interesting. My misunderstanding stemmed from the fact that itwillhappen referred to a “multy-day musicality workshop“. But due to the focus on communication, it should essentially be labeled more a workshop on unmusicality.

 

[brujo]

At some point, doesn't "do less, listen more" devolve into reading followers' minds?

At least in the classes I’m taking as a beginner there is a bigger focus on active following compared to some of the other dances I do. In the sense of suggesting musicality, adding little bits of resistance, taking over parts of the giro, adding adornos to prompt lyrical dancing, etc. This might sound obvious to most experienced dancers but for me as a lead is like having the instruments explained so I can listen to them better in the dance.

 

[Rabbit]

At some point, doesn't "do less, listen more" devolve into reading followers' minds?

When they don't say anything

 

[Bailango]

At least in the classes I’m taking as a beginner there is a bigger focus on active following compared to some of the other dances I do.

There is no consensus on what active following is when discussing it in written like here.

It is good if active following is indeed taught from beginner levels. In my experience with actual dancing, WCS has most active following amongst the social dances I have done. I don’t know how much it is taught in WCS just like I don’t know how much is taught in Tango. I have seen a few individual instructors in each teaching it without calling it active following. The question is are you extrapolating based on an instructor or two teaching so.

A distinction should also be drawn between teaching good dancing and active following. Good dancing can be about good following or good leading, but more of good following in this case.

In the sense of suggesting musicality, adding little bits of resistance,

Depends on what you mean by adding resistance and how it is added. Good dancing/following requires creating a bit of resistance to improve connection. That is not active following.

Resisting to follow what is led is disruptive and not active following either. It is like a car having two drivers at the same time.

Technically to me active following is - following the lead that is given and then doing something interesting with the given lead. A good leading is inviting a follower and then following the follower to finish the movement. Most good leads always follow the follower. This way as a leader you are neither rushing the follower nor slowing them down or throwing them off balance.

taking over parts of the giro,

Again I am not sure what you mean by taking over part of giro. I have discussed this with many instructors. The consensus is that unless follower has right technique and timing, there is not a lot a leader can do. Someone could argue that a leader can lead the giro timing (and technique) with clear assertive lead. But that only works with some followers, not all.

Not everything can be led, if a follower lacks technique and ability to be balanced. Technique can include ability to disassociate. As a leader I have to adjust and compensate if follower can’t disassociate sufficiently.

adding adornos to prompt lyrical dancing, etc

This is certainly not active following. Also adornos should not interfere with dancing. There is space and time within which a good dancer adds adornos. A good leader will also wait for follower to finish the adornos. A good follower can also add adornos between the movements without the leader being aware of it. I haven’t seen any class devoted only to how and when to use adornos.

As to lyrical dancing, they can also be used in rhythmic dancing.

You can create your own adornos.

This might sound obvious to most experienced dancers but for me as a lead is like having the instruments explained so I can listen to them better in the dance.

Since you danced salsa, it is common in salsa beginning classes to teach or inform students to isolate particular instruments. There are a lot more instruments in salsa music. Some are rhythmic and some melodic. A few like piano can do both.

 

[Bailango]

At some point, doesn't "do less, listen more" devolve into reading followers' minds?

That’s not how I will interprete it. Not that anyone (instructor) has said that to me.

To me do less and listen more as I practice it is to be attentive and aware of how a follower executes movements. Unless the follower is really good (and may be we have danced before) I don’t go on auto pilot. What I am listening to are things like -
Degree or dissociation, does she step early or step late into her step, does she fall into the step when walking, is her stepping abrupt rather than being dictated by the music, quality of the pivot. It is like a continuous caliberation.

 

[itwillhappen]

At least in the classes I’m taking as a beginner there is a bigger focus on active following compared to some of the other dances I do.

When I was in beginner's classes, most couples were just trying to get the basics down through cooperation. And this required at least twice as much attention on the leaders as on the followers. Unless leaders (and followers) have become significantly more gifted, or are overrepresented and consumable, I consider it utter nonsense to even try to teach beginners how to "actively follow".

 

[itwillhappen]

- duplicate -

 

[itwillhappen]

Again I am not sure what you mean by taking over part of giro.

Leading women provide as followers often noticeable momentum in the second half of a turn , just as is done in the Viennese Waltz.

 

[itwillhappen]

I find the approach interesting. My misunderstanding stemmed from the fact that itwillhappen referred to a “multy-day musicality workshop“. But due to the focus on communication, it should essentially be labeled more a workshop on unmusicality.

Well, that maestro was accompanied by his heavily pregnant wife. Perhaps his logical-dialectical thinking was already hormonally impaired.
Because the story continued:
I then asked why he had danced so assertively and dynamically with all the women during the internal practicas (like performing teachers do when they want to impress their female clientele). And whether I wouldn't then in comparison appear like a wimp to my girlfriend if I tried to "do less, listen more". (He didn't find the question funny at all and - visibly piqued - didn't answer it.)