Someone who is not communicating useful information to 95% of their students is not a good teacher, regardless of intention
Teachers who dance socially and those who don't, and their students
- Thread starter MediocresAires
- Start date
Someone who is not communicating useful information to 95% of their students is not a good teacher, regardless of intention
MediocresAires
Member
I have a basic understanding of the history of tango. The "old school" Argentine teachers I mean are around 50-60 years old, have learned tango in the 90ies and became successful in Argentina before moving abroad and started teaching there.
MediocresAires
Member
I don't really care about formal qualifications if the teacher has something useful to teach. As long as a certified tango teacher training with a standardized curriculum does not exist, any "qualification" is meaningless anyway.
Also, I'm not blaming stage performers. Some of the best teachers in my scene have a stage perfomer background. The difference is that they also dance socially.
The military junta was overthrown in 1983 following the Falklands/Malvinas war with the UK. That, sort of, restarted AT in Argentina. Some of those 'old school' teachers (maybe slightly older) left Argentina as part of the diaspora either before (because of the 'Dirty War') or after (because they could). For some, teaching or performing AT was a means of earning a living. There wasn't really a teaching method or curriculum in the time preceding that in Argentina. It wasn't really needed. And from the mid-1950s until 1983 AT was, effectively, 'banned' in Argentina (possibility of plotting together against the regime at the milonga). Those provided your 'Group B' along with those they taught.
'Group A' are the newbies on the scene. Sometimes from Argentina - where they may have trained (some are good!). Now they need to earn money in the big wide world. You come across some sofa-surfing across Europe, setup a school, or invited to provide lessons, and then move on.
You also get the enthusiastic amateur, or someone from another dance scene. It's yet another business side-hustle. Sometimes associated with 'wellness'. They may insist theirs is the true way! They're young. They need customers/clients, so they choose their partners at a milonga to advertise themselves. They're not all bad! Some develop.
Those who were taught by your 'Group B' are in the middle. They may perform (need an income!) at milongas, weekend events, etc. Some are in shows. They often revere the old milongueros and their skills - and may include some of that old repertoire in their teaching. Those still around have probably developed their teaching skills!
You didn't mention whereabouts you're located! General region would give some info on what you'll find there. I'm more focussed on the UK and Europe (with a tiny bit of knowledge of Oceania)
opendoor
Forum Master
As written above, if you have a strong professional ethos, then your teaching is of a high quality. So why then also dance with your students in your free time at milongas? I'm rather curious about those teachers who dance socially with their students. There are sometimes unpleasant dependencies involved, which I've discussed in other threads.
TTanguero
Forum Master
I didn't do so – read again what I wrote.
In any activity with teachers, or coaches, we should all know of the bad stories of that 'special' student targeted by the, usually**, male teacher. You have such talent. Let me give you some extra lessons to bring that out. Quite a few instances on FB and in the media. So, yes, it happens!
**usually male, but not unknown for female. I've tried not to infer male or female in the following.
However, apart from that, there are numerous reasons:
Just friends/acquaintances - we (my wife and I
) sometimes each dance a tanda with a couple we know, who teach, and perform in BsAs. Occasionally take a lesson with them, but we also used to dance with them before that.You've already proven yourself as an extremely good dancer. You're not really 'advanced' unless you can dance with a beginner or novice. It's social. It includes everyone. It can be fun. It's advertising yourself. It gets someone on the floor who may not invite/be invited otherwise. You do find some may have a special favourite (which may develop). You find some may restrict themselves to their specific group (several reasons); others don't.
Of course, if you're still climbing the slippery pole to the top (wherever that is for them), maybe you're more selective. You only want to show yourself at your best. I've mentioned 'performers', who don't wish to be injured, who may be seen to be selective, but a very different and valid reason.
I'm sure there are many more groupings which could be made, but so what? There's threads here on why you don't choose someone and why you do. All forms of human life can be found at some larger milongas, or if you travel.
Ok, I don't dance AT, but I think that teachers who teach people to do social dancing should spent some, though limited time also dancing socially, to get some additional feedback of how successful their teaching actually is
It's hard to be a good dance teacher for many reasons
MediocresAires
Member
I'm in mainland Europe, in the allegedly European capital of tango... Whatever that's supposed to mean.
MediocresAires
Member
I'm not necessarily suggesting that teachers from group A should dance with their students. They don't even dance with other teachers outside of their in-group.
opendoor
Forum Master
Then we agree after all, MediocresAires, that's good!
opendoor
Forum Master
Social tango as such isnˋt taught, vit. Mostly, the old syllabi are taught and outdated teaching methods are used. There's no clear distinction between show tango and social tango in class. I personally was lucky that my tango teacher took the time to go to the pista with me several times to practice social tango. But that is probably the exception.
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brujo
Well-Known Member
There is also the case where people who don't organize events underestimate the amount of background work needed for a lot of stuff. So when they see a teacher not dancing they probably don't realize how much time they have spent doing private lessons, preparing a DJ set, making sure that people in the room are comfortable and so forth. I've seen the really good teachers pick out people who are not getting dances or dancing with other people at their level who are visiting but mostly just sitting out making sure the event is running smoothly. When they dance at the bigger events and festivals it's often with their spouse. Even just performing later in the night requires a lot of focus and concentration.
Whilst, to some degree, it's true that the same dance elements are applicable, and aspirations of dancing like 'show' tango may have brought them to the class, the overwhelming majority who stay will end up dancing 'social'. We've also had various tango códigos explained and discussed.
Every teacher we've had has taken students onto the dancefloor (excluding an early, helpful, ballroom teacher who didn't attend milongas). Even in workshops. We still see that now. It's it 'luck', unless you've been spectacularly unlucky in your choices. Yes, we've been selective about teachers and haven't chosen from the emerging younger, exclusive, set - but have observed what happens.
brujo
Well-Known Member
There is a super interesting interview with Corina de la Rosa where she goes a little bit into how the tango teaching aspects have changed even in her lifetime. For example, she mentioned that things like feminine technique and aesthetics where not really a thing in classes until kinda the late 80s where classes more dedicated to women started popping up. How before that it was more here are the steps the men do and the women just followed along.
In chatting with older milongueros ( ~80ish years old ) and folks that started when tango was gaining popularity in the early 90s there feels like a difference in the learning styles. So somebody like Nito and Elba probably didn’t break down things as detailed and verbally with a technique focus as it is done nowadays in Buenos Aires à la DNI style. Maybe that is the conflict here, where if you’re lucky you get an instructor exposed to the best teaching in Argentina or with many instructors coming from that super competitive environment.
In chatting with older milongueros ( ~80ish years old ) and folks that started when tango was gaining popularity in the early 90s there feels like a difference in the learning styles. So somebody like Nito and Elba probably didn’t break down things as detailed and verbally with a technique focus as it is done nowadays in Buenos Aires à la DNI style. Maybe that is the conflict here, where if you’re lucky you get an instructor exposed to the best teaching in Argentina or with many instructors coming from that super competitive environment.