The Booty Misconception

[TomTango]

It's the same like in science. First there were greek philosophers, then there was Newton, then Einstein and others. First theories were simple and easy to understand, just it turned out they can't explain everything, so people invented more complex ones. Problem is - more accurate it is, harder to understand and to use by most people

Just like everything else in our ordinary life - including dancing

I like this! Just like people are still trying to discover a unified theory of tango.

 

[opendoor]

...really wonder if all if the current obsession with anatomy and technique....

You are right, of course. But what if not on technique, history, psychology shall we talk about? A forum should be more than just a bulletin board. So, for me dancing is for the dance floor, and the forum is for philosophizing..
Happy New Year, by the way!

 

[sixela]

It's the same like in science.

Let's take philosophy instead. First there were the Greek philosophers, and some time ago there was Lacan...if you ever watched a lecture from him from start to end, you'd see that more esoteric isn't always more relevant.

There's also the fact that some of the discourse on technique and certainly anatomy tends to be very prescriptive in a narrow way, and to assume that there's only one way to skin a cat.

 

[dchester]

John isn't fighting a battle, but I find myself at odds with people who think certain people are "good" because they look good and have done "well" in competitions.

Also, I really wonder if all if the current obsession with anatomy and technique, an isn't lost on most of us; even though I am somewhat guilty of going there, too.

IMO, good and bad are relative in most anything, and especially anything artsy, (which includes tango). I think people forget this, or maybe never even realized it. If you think someone is good (or bad), then it's true for you, but it might not be true for anyone else.

I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking someone is good because they look good and did well in competitions. It's takes a lot of skill (and practice) to achieve it. I can very much enjoy watching how good someone looks when dancing, (and the last thing I want to see at a performance, is a demonstration of "good" social dancing).

Now, unless I've danced with a performer, I can't say whether they would be a good teacher for me, as the feel / embrace / connection aspect of the dance is also important for me when dancing (not when watching, though).

BTW, despite some of the silly stereotyping that you see posted on here from time to time, some performers really do have a "wonderful" embrace, (as lots of them study many different styles of tango).

 

[itwillhappen]

Beginning with tango I was surprised to see some eligible tangueros (seldom tangueras) dancing with a bad looking posture.
It took me some time to figure out, that this posture was a relict of "export tango", used by professional contemporary/modern dancers to gain flexibility to express best with her body, imitated by second level tango teachers, adopted by midfield tangueros that never had not much to express and many years of experience didn't change that.
But with that experience they can embrace and lead quite well, additionally the can look onto their feet to make things easy.

What I really want to say: people complaining about other peoples posture often target to the inner attitude of them.

BTW: I was by no way concerned about their health - the main risk is to sit an office chair and not to dance.

 

[opendoor]

...relict of "export tango" ….imitated by second level tango teachers, adopted by midfield...

I would not reduce it only to a question of quality and proficiency. It also reflects a generation issue. All those first generation tango teachers in europe used to propagate this style. We also call it kitchen style over here, because those pathfinders figured it out on their own on the basis of rare video material. Milonguero style (narrow sense) came up as a crosscurrent development at the end of the century.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Also some cultures tend to be more appreciative of women with more badonkadonk

I've seen Noelia & Virginia on & off of the dance floor, walking & standing naturally, in heels & without. It does not seem to me that in any of those contexts either is "thrusting her butt out".

Here is Noelia dancing without heels while illustrating a concept that she & Carlitos asked workshop attendees to explore:


Virginia Pandolfi with Jonathan Aguero dancing milonga:

Seems to me that Noelia is simply a curvaceous young woman. I didn't notice any undue exaggeration here. Ms Pandolfi on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. Then again, I'm no expert on posture and alignment.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I'd recommend that people read the blog post, as then you'll really understand what Melina is saying.
http://melinas-two-cent.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/beanpoles-backbends.html

FWIW, here is the posture that they recommend, and I have no issue with it, (although I'm not claiming it's what everyone should be doing). The embrace has to conform to your body, IMO. This is a good embrace, IMO (even if there are other ways of having a good embrace).

FWIW, what Detlef is doing, is exactly what I try to teach / encourage, (even though it's not exactly what I do).

Looks stiff to me. And I don't like his arm position. And what is with the upright thumb? Also, they're not really "embracing." Close, but no cigar.

 

[dchester]

Looks stiff to me. And I don't like his arm position. And what is with the upright thumb? Also, they're not really "embracing." Close, but no cigar.

I was referring to posture, not the position of the thumb. Sorry for not being more clear.

 

[oldtangoguy]

The social tango dance of the senses has almost no outward show whatsoever... if you want to partner dance tango socially, learn how to dance for your partner.

I realize that this was posted some time ago, but it really gets to the point. I agree that you should learn how to dance for your actual partner, and not for some imaginary audience or some idealized partner who exists only in your head.

THIS is why I only dance club style close embrace, even when the floor is nearly empty: because no respectable woman would ever take pleasure in large athletic movements. Deep volcadas. Huge overturned back ochos or, heaven forbid, a follower back sacada. No decent woman would enjoy the giddy feeling of a well executed series of circular colgadas. Etc.

Wait. Just kidding. THIS is why I have taken the time to learn Susana Miller style close embrace. To learn a "salon" style semi-open V-embrace. To learn a wide open Gustavo Naviera style embrace. It's because, conditions permitting, I want to be able to dance the dance that my partner wants. I do not dictate to my partner that we must only dance the 'dance of the senses', whatever the heck that means. Furthermore, I suspect that the sensory inputs a highly fit former ballerina (such as my wife) enjoys on the dance floor may be dramatically different from those enjoyed by a lovelorn, ice-cream-scarfing, middle-aged divorcee. And there are a million women in between those two extremes. Are you saying that tango is a one-size-fits-all dance? Good luck with that.

 

[Oliver]

When I got to "no respectable woman" I started seeing red. Well played.

 

[newbie]

Naviera

For some reason this typo is common. I think I never saw "niavera" or "naveria" for instance

 

[sixela]

Are you saying that tango is a one-size-fits-all dance?

You're quoting JohnEm, who likes to order the solutions to a problem by correctness (with only one solution maximalising "correctness") and often seems to think that there is an objective criterion to decide which is "most correct" (although not everyone has Seen the Light and discovered it). Or at least that's the impression I get reading him.

 

[itwillhappen]

Furthermore, I suspect that the sensory inputs a highly fit former ballerina (such as my wife) enjoys on the dance floor may be dramatically different from those enjoyed by a lovelorn, ice-cream-scarfing, middle-aged divorcee.

I feel with you. I get no bonus from my SO (dance therapist, yoga teacher and so on) for a tango "like they did it in Buenos Aires 1945". I shall simply dance well with her - present, connected, musically, pleasant, versatile - however.

 

[JohnEm]

You're quoting JohnEm, who likes to order the solutions to a problem by correctness (with only one solution maximalising "correctness") and often seems to think that there is an objective criterion to decide which is "most correct" (although not everyone has Seen the Light and discovered it). Or at least that's the impression I get reading him.

And you would be wrong!