The lead for the cruzada

[UKDancer]

Hornet's nest? This is probably one of the nicest & most productive threads we've had on a very controversial topic in a long time!

Yes, I take it back!

If you and a partner are not averse to dancing apilado, you might try to lead a cross from a stationary position. I think you will find that you will have to use only your body: your axis, and your torso. And that knowledge, which you will get in both your head and your body, if you do it long enough, will be very useful.

I find no difficulty in leading a cross from a standing position in open embrace, either. Set it up on the preceding step, and as Peaches said, the follower really has no choice.

Leading successive crosses, one after another, is a useful exercise. It forces you to recognise the necessary geometry.

 

[newbie]

I'm assuming these numbers refer to the steps in the 8CB, so if they are not then it explains my confusion. I'm not clear what you mean by the follower going from step 3 to 5 (step 5 being at the cross).

Nothing special, it's just the cruzada in cross system, so my "3" is not done on her "3" but on her "4", and 3-5 means that her "5" comes one step after my "3".

 

[newbie]

If you and a partner are not averse to dancing apilado, you might try to lead a cross from a stationary position. I think you will find that you will have to use only your body: your axis, and your torso. And that knowledge, which you will get in both your head and your body, if you do it long enough, will be very useful.

I attended an apilado workshop long ago, we did just that. My partner was one of the assistants. Much to my surprise, it worked.
"How is it possible? I barely moved anything and you crossed. Is there some black magic here?"
"No non no, I just answered your lead".

The skeptical me did it again, but in mirror, to see whether the assistant would end with a mirror cruzada (righ foot crossed). Her weight shifted, her torso rotated. But there was no cruzada.

 

[JohnEm]

I attended an apilado workshop long ago, we did just that. My partner was one of the assistants. Much to my surprise, it worked.
"How is it possible? I barely moved anything and you crossed. Is there some black magic here?"
"No non no, I just answered your lead".

The skeptical me did it again, but in mirror, to see whether the assistant would end with a mirror cruzada (righ foot crossed). Her weight shifted, her torso rotated. But there was no cruzada.

I learned what the teachers called a standing cross. With a clear lead
to a connected person it can also be lead in open/practice hold.

Mirror though always seem to be difficult and I don't try it socially.
I'm guessing it's because the so-called inline embrace position is
inevitably asymmetric, compounded by the embrace having a closed
and open side. So it's a combination of geometry and practicality
which makes it easier to lead the lady's left leg than the right.

The argentine solution is the wrap around (man's) right arm embrace
so the fingers reach right around to the lady's right side - don't press.
However I already know that ladies abroad are less likely to accept it
although such an embrace embodies the draw of Buenos Aires for some.

 

[newbie]

Mirror though always seem to be difficult and I don't try it socially.
I'm guessing it's because the so-called inline embrace position is
inevitably asymmetric

It was an exercize, done without the arms. But ok, the mirror try was just my try, without telling the assistant, while the regular exercize, ending with the regular cruzada, was explained and described beforehand by the teacher.

 

[Steve Pastor]

It's more difficult to lead on the side that you never do it on. Most women have done that movement to their right side, many, many times. It therefore feels "natural" to do it. (My experience has been that women "untrained" in TA will do a quickquick rather than step across themselves.)
And, yeah, with anything other than a 100% parallel embrace (and I think most of us end up with some V in there, it's easier to lead to the side that's open. And that is probably why we almost never cross on the opposite side.

 

[AndaBien]

I have heard that the reason the cruzada always goes to the leaders left is that the ronda always turns in that direction.

 

[UKDancer]

I have heard that the reason the cruzada always goes to the leaders left is that the ronda always turns in that direction.

I'd be suprised if there was enough turn involved for that to be a consideration - but anything's possible.

 

[Imbrace]

I'm assuming these numbers refer to the steps in the 8CB, so if they are not then it explains my confusion. I'm not clear what you mean by the follower going from step 3 to 5 (step 5 being at the cross).

Nothing special, it's just the cruzada in cross system, so my "3" is not done on her "3" but on her "4", and 3-5 means that her "5" comes one step after my "3".

No, it's the cruzada in the parallel system. You rock on your right, come back, pivot the follower like if were going to make her do a forward ocho, but then pivit her back to face you and she will cross LF over RF. I'm not sure how much you guys agree with this one.

The argentine solution is the wrap around (man's) right arm embrace
so the fingers reach right around to the lady's right side - don't press.
However I already know that ladies abroad are less likely to accept it
although such an embrace embodies the draw of Buenos Aires for some.

Can you explain this or give a videos example if available?

 

[Peaches]

No, it's the cruzada in the parallel system. You rock on your right, come back, pivot the follower like if were going to make her do a forward ocho, but then pivit her back to face you and she will cross LF over RF. I'm not sure how much you guys agree with this one.

Agree with what? That it will work? That it's a cross? Yes, of course. Personally, though, I would never actually consider that a cruzada. That, to me, is a twist on an ocho cortado or, alternatively just a pivot on a standing foot that ends up with the left foot in front of the right. To me it has nothing in common with a "standard" cruzada. Or even one of the non-standard one (right foot in front of left, right behind left, left behind right). It's an entirely different feel.

 

[dchester]

No, it's the cruzada in the parallel system. You rock on your right, come back, pivot the follower like if were going to make her do a forward ocho, but then pivit her back to face you and she will cross LF over RF. I'm not sure how much you guys agree with this one.

Are you referring to the ocho cortado?

 

[Imbrace]

Are you referring to the ocho cortado?

Good that you asked. It's been like a story told from one person to another, by the time it gets to the person # 10, it can be completely different

In my first post I mentioned 4 forms/approaches of/to the cross:

1. 345 in the parallel system basic
2. 345 in the cross system basic
3. the cross from the ocho cortado
4. 35 cross from the parallel system (Peaches says she would cross, although it has nothing in common with a "standard" cruzada, and is an entirely different feel.)

When I lead the 35 cross, most of girls get it except beginners.

 

[opendoor]

When I lead the 35 cross, most of girls get it except beginners.

Hi Imbrace, that is due to the habituation effect and got nothing to do with lead. I can only repeat: changing tracks carries a follower into the cross. That is todays didactics.

 

[Peaches]

In my first post I mentioned 4 forms/approaches of/to the cross:

1. 345 in the parallel system basic
2. 345 in the cross system basic
3. the cross from the ocho cortado
4. 35 cross from the parallel system (Peaches says she would cross, although it has nothing in common with a "standard" cruzada, and is an entirely different feel.)

I confess I have really no clue what you're talking about. From the written description, I have no idea how #3 and #4 are different; "35 cross from the parallel system" means nothing to me, but your earlier description made it sound exactly like an ocho cortado (and, apparently, I'm not the only one to have this thought). Could you please explain what is different about them?

As a follower, I (should) feel absolutely no difference between the cross and parallel systems. Hell, if you do it right you could be tap dancing a jig (question: do jigs get tap danced? regular danced? Hmmm...) and I wouldn't care. What you do with your feet is of no consequence to me as a follower...with limited exceptions.

 

[AndaBien]

...do jigs get tap danced?...

Do the Irish drink?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW8fZzHYaec