I don’t know. When they express so, it is usually followed up with them asking questions about cabaceo.
The long-term solution is dual-role dancing?
- Thread starter itwillhappen
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itwillhappen
Forum Master
So there really are 2-song tandas? I thought that was just a crazy thought experiment.
I'm quite traditional, well-behaved, so to speak, I dance one 4-song tanda, then hug the tanguera and bring her back to her place or whereever her glasses are.
But 2-song tandas open up completely new possibilities for me. I can get rid of a tanguera after 2 songs if things aren't going so well, I can enjoy 4 songs as usual if things are going well, and I can also extend our "tanda" to 6 songs if things are going very well. Conversely, I'm curious to see whether I'll meet a tanguera saying goodbye after 2 songs in our follower-heavy environment, as that judgment could be a goodbye for quite a long time. And the ladies even welcome that? Fantastic!
At the Tango Festival in Metz, all DJs were instructed to play 3-song tandas. I liked the faster turnover because there were waiting literally hundreds of tangueras I didn't know. But I think at my regular milongas I would in practice dance some 6-song tandas and nothing would be gained.
Yes. We used to go fairly frequently pre-Covid (it never re-opened post-Covid). I've come across them elsewhere, and we keep considering going to somewhere which has sprung up with a tango room for ceroc dancers. OK monthly, but too much weekly.
I really do think it depends on the attendees. A clique of miserable traditionalists intent on enforcing their codigos, looking down on novices, isn't going to enjoy it
, but it isn't for them. It's for people who are out to just dance, to be sociable, and to enjoy the evening, and good for beginners. It also depends on the music - nothing really obscure (e.g. Buscandote always gets people dancing), and good alternative, danceable, tracks mixed in (and 'good alternative', to me has a limited repertoire).Yes. No codigos beyond 'respect'. Equally, the tanguera can get rid of you, or invite you.
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The question is the tanda/cortina system really a good idea in the first place or people are just habituated to it. I believe the latter. I think "traditional" tango by the definition of the 2010s ultimately has no future and we need to reinvent it to save it. Of course we're badly off topic
TTanguero
Forum Master
Definitely not in any of the UK places I've danced (London and the SE, plus assorted festivals – Feast, Cheltenham, Sheffield, Tango by the Sea, etc). Where in the UK are you?
I occasionally see a DJ switch to 3T tandas where there is a large imbalance, and I do (on balance ...) approve of that.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Most of the dancers here seem quite happy with it. The alternative is tango nuevo or the alternative tango event, which doesn't use tandas or fixed sequences.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
With that every DJ and every event organizer can experiment even spontaneously at no cost. What's the problem?
I get to milongas throughout the UK. I do come across the occasional 4T3VM as an exception - probably at some event attempting to demonstrate that they're 'traditional', but it's usually 3TVM. It's mainly Europe which provides 4T3VM as a standard. TTVTTM is usually observed unless dancers can't dance vals or milonga.
But I see no reason to seek a standard. Each offering usually evolved to suit the group using that, whatever their reasons, from speed-tandas to 4 or 5 T, 3VM. And, of course, you can always define 'speed-tandas' as 'not a real milonga' since it doesn't fit preconceptions of 'tradition'.
I wouldn't expect live musicians to offer any fixed number. Maybe 3 or 4 T then a pause, 3 or 4 more, then a break. Depends on the extent and diversity of their repertoire.
It's just a construct, enabled by recording and playback technology, which has evolved to suit the circumstances. It's not an absolute codigo to keep some 'tradition'. I'm quite happy with the diversity. The only thing I dislike is the 'silent cortina' which is too similar to the gap between dances.
Changing the format overall is not a solution to anything. Changing it in a particular milonga may be helpful in promoting participation and growth.
TTanguero
Forum Master
Very odd, then, that you have the impression that 3T is the norm!
It does depend on the event. At festivals and at higher profile events like Tango Feast and Tango By the Sea I see why it would be 4T, but most of the regular milongas I have been to in the UK outside of London usually have tandas of 3 tangos, not 4.
I think 4T tandas encourage people to be more choosy. That's fine if you're at a large enough event - it pays off to be selective when there are quite a few people that you'd like to dance with in a sea of possibilities.
In the smaller communities far outside of London, the events can be really small. In some cases you get roughly the same 20-40 people showing up, and usually there is a role imbalance (much more noticeable when numbers are that small). To add to that, in some towns there are only one or two milongas per month.
The result is that all the locals in these places know each other, everyone pretty much dances with everyone else, and it's not uncommon for you to dance with everyone of the opposite role who happened to turn up for the event that night. Being choosy here doesn't pay off, in fact, I suspect being too choosy in these places would kill the local tango scene.
For me a 4T tanda feels significantly more demanding than a 3T tanda. Usually I will feel like I want to take a break after dancing two consecutive tandas at a 4T event, if it's a 3T event I can probably push it to three consecutive tandas and be ok. If everyone felt the same (I'm sure they don't but let's imagine) and your whole event is just a dozen couples, the dance floor is going to be a lot emptier if people are sitting out for a third of the tandas, rather than just a quarter.
TTanguero
Forum Master
Yeah, the local milongas far outside London may be the key word here, as I have no experience of those. Festivals aside, I mostly dance within a 60-90 minute range of London.
I should stress I'm not opposed to 3T if there's a significant role imbalance, I just haven't seen it other than the occasional DJ/organiser responding to the room.
It would be interesting to see a map 3T and 4T milongas over the world. Most European cities I've visited have also had a 4T format, but they have all been capital cities, which is why I suspect that it's related to how large/varied/active the tango scene is.
I do see 3T events a bit like having the tango "training wheels" on but, like I said, if it's a small event and partner choices are not that plentiful I'll probably enjoy it more if they keep it to three tangos rather than four.
Widen your horizons!
I've attended milongas in London with 3T. Pretentious events there do go for 4T. It depends on the participants, cliques, numbers and the DJ/organiser.
I can't recollect even a small event out of the UK on mainland Europe which has used 3T.
As has been said elsewhere, it all depends where you're located - and probably where/who you visit.
The number of dances per tanda only matters if it's incompatible with what those attending are looking for or need. Alternative structures may be more encouraging and beneficial overall. Even an occasional novelty might be beneficial, as a 'mixer', say. The number of dances/tanda isn't an immutable rule, even if some think it is.
I have not danced in UK. I have danced in many small and large cities. All have been 4T. also 3 Vals and 3 milongas is like a defacto too.
After hearing about 3T, I have asked others too who travel a lot. No one remembers 3T at a milonga. Only in some practica. It will be interesting to ask who DJ, how often they have played 3T.
My preference would be for 3T, rather than 4T. Only with a very few I look forward to dancing the 4th.