The long-term solution is dual-role dancing?

[ArbeeNYC]

It's easy with good technique, cores are active, most of the weight actually goes into the floor.

true, but you still have to counteract the weight that doesn't go into the floor and that can be a lot or a little depending on the partner.

 

[Bailango]

Now that we are approaching 1000 posts mark for the thread, can we agree that almost no one agrees with the thread title

 

[TTanguero]

Now that we are approaching 1000 posts mark for the thread, can we agree that almost no one agrees with the thread title

Well, given the thread title was a misunderstanding of something I wrote, not even I agree with it ...

 

[itwillhappen]

Well, given the thread title was a misunderstanding of something I wrote, not even I agree with it ...

The thread title "The long-term solution is dual-role dancing" is yours, the "?" is mine. And yes, that section was about dual-role teaching. But what can you say about that, a possible advantage could only be proven in practice, in the mainstream. And at least I haven't seen anything like that yet.

Role-balanced events, on the other hand, are a lot on the market. For me, that format is irrelevant, it was not developed for me. I look at how an organizer is connected and whether he/she can influence the participants in any way.

A friend just complained that far too many followers were allowed at a role-balanced marathon for commercial reasons. Well, how can you check that?
In any case, she is used to getting the attention she wants from the men. She is hardly interested in whether other women are sitting there, or whether her male partner is having a good time. It is quite possible that she was unable to find her position between the local capital clique and Eastern European women twenty years younger. An event format like that might perhaps not be suitable in general for her.

 

[TTanguero]

The thread title "The long-term solution is dual-role dancing" is yours, the "?" is mine

You quoted a heading, not the text. The text was:

I’ve long said that I wish tango schools taught both roles from day one. A few do this, but not many.

The truth is, most of us didn’t choose our role, it was effectively pre-selected by the prevailing norm in tango schools. Most schools teach the roles in a way which forces people to choose one or the other, and the assumption made in most of them is that men will lead and women will follow, because that’s the tradition – or the perception of it, at least.

So one of the longer-term solutions is schools switching to a model where everyone learns both roles from day one. That way, people genuinely can later make a choice about whether to lead, follow, or be a dual-role dancer. (I mean, yes we can still make that choice later, but it’s much more difficult.)

Learning both roles is valuable even if we know from day one that we only want to do one of them. Every leader who has taken even a handful of following lessons knows how much it helps your lead, and I suspect the reverse is also true.

 

[itwillhappen]

So one of the longer-term solutions is schools switching to a model where everyone learns both roles from day one. That way, people genuinely can later make a choice about whether to lead, follow, or be a dual-role dancer. (I mean, yes we can still make that choice later, but it’s much more difficult.)

Learning both roles is valuable even if we know from day one that we only want to do one of them. Every leader who has taken even a handful of following lessons knows how much it helps your lead, and I suspect the reverse is also true.

For now that's still a theory. Many teachers have already thought up many different teaching concepts. Whether one of them works can only be seen in practice. And the effort required to prove something like that is not all that great, and then you can reveal yourself as a magician to the amazed tango world. (Perhaps the only the effort required to prove that the dancers at a milonga actually want to hear different music is even less.)

 

[Brummbaer]

So one of the longer-term solutions is schools switching to a model where everyone learns both roles from day one.

That, or similar, was of course the story behind the old practicas where males would learn both roles - and allegedly the follower role first. However, there was a justification - women were sparse and to be good enough to have the choice of all the young girls whilst not dishonouring their teacher(s). That no longer applies (ignoring any dating scene around some milongas). So, your justification seems to be: learn to dance both roles so that, if there aren't any partners available of the opposite sex (in a heteronormative group), then don't worry. You can dance at a milonga with the same sex, or change roles. Not selling it to the younger, or older, who decide nowadays that they wish to learn AT! And I absolutely agree that learning both roles is useful to improve technique. But it's only a limited number who commit to learning more; the rest (probably the males) are content with just being sufficiently competent to get dances with different partners. If you're a PYT getting dances, then why bother?

 

[TTanguero]

However, there was a justification [...] So, your justification seems to be

Justification?

 

[opendoor]

..there was a justification - women were sparse..

I would rather call it causation. Usually justification is used when ethical or legal norms are the reasons. At least that's how I use the word.

 

[Brummbaer]

Justification?

Justification, as in a good reason or explanation for something.

A causation is different.

 

[itwillhappen]

Recently I learned something new. Instead of a cabeceo, I got a rotating hand gesture. I was confused, so I went over and asked. OK, the lady had just swapped roles and wanted to dance the tanda with the lady next to her, but we can dance later. I'm not a football fan, but I think it was the signal used to substitute players. Of course, I was a bit slow on the uptake; but on the other hand, I didn't expect such at a quite conservative encuentro.

 

[Bailango]

Recently I learned something new. Instead of a cabeceo, I got a rotating hand gesture. I was confused, so I went over and asked. OK, the lady had just swapped roles and wanted to dance the tanda with the lady next to her, but we can dance later.

I have done similar gesture meaning to say afterwards or later. Both in Tango and outside of dancing.

 

[itwillhappen]

As has been implied before: attracting and keeping both sexes of varying ages to dance AT socially (yes, there will be some polarisation)

I agree, it is simply a solution to a role imbalance, in a form that more women can dance. So as things stand, it is less something for both sexes.

Being less elitest (well, some people and groups seem to revel in that about their take on 'tradition'), offering a friendly, social, environment, not fusing with other interests to confuse, an encouraging teaching environment, better education about music and dancing to it, new danceable music, something to aspire to (but not hero-worship), even some alternative presentation formats (speed-tandas have been mentioned), good, live, music, maybe even some al-fresco opportunities (not in the rain, cold, snow, or on concrete) to showcase AT. And, mostly, learning from what doesn't work well.

This is indeed such a broader sense that, in my opinion, tango in the mainstream here will at best follow social trends that have not come about so far, and I think that this is highly questionable for the future either.

 

[opendoor]

..got a rotating hand gesture.... we can dance later..

Clockwise or counter-clockwise?

 

[itwillhappen]

Clockwise or counter-clockwise?

Without a reference plane and orientation, such a definition makes no sense. But I meant with both forearms forward in front of the middle.