The long-term solution is dual-role dancing?

[TTanguero]

why do you think that?

That's probably a lengthy discussion that's hard to summarise, but just to give a flavour ...

An experienced follower knows the importance of a leader calibrating their lead to the follower. Greater clarity with less experienced dancers, greater subtlety and freedom for more experienced ones. That's something they can apply to their own leading.

An experienced leader knows the importance of a responsive follower. However, that doesn't help them in any way, shape or form to actually be responsive.

The theoretical benefit is equal, but the practical benefit not so much.

 

[brujo]

I don't think they are equivalent, though. Sure, experienced followers still have to learn leading skills, including navigation, but I think following experience is more valuable in learning to lead than leading experience is in learning to follow.

As a still tango beginner learning to lead, being in the following role definitely has made a lot of the stuff that my teacher points out in the privates a lot clearer to me. For example, never really understood what she really meant by “you’re thinking about the next move” or “your less dominant foot doesn’t weight transfer as clearly” until experiencing this with different leads in a beginner class and getting a clear sense of how that feels.

 

[TTanguero]

As a still tango beginner learning to lead, being in the following role definitely has made a lot of the stuff that my teacher points out in the privates a lot clearer to me.

Absolutely. I always asked teachers to lead me in whatever I was learning, so I understood how the lead was supposed to feel.

 

[itwillhappen]

I'm not sure that "more successful" is fair. As you say yourself, Totally in Tango prides itself on being open to all, so there is no required standard for either role.

It's already unfair to compare a teacher to an organizer in this regard.

But it's also unfair to give the impression that tango dancers are interested in an orderly ronda. The vast majority (local milongas, outdoor milongas, alternative milongas, festival milongas) couldn't care less; as long as you don't bump into anyone, everything's fine.

 

[itwillhappen]

I would say it's for sure true for milonga. Tango and vals, I don't know, but we certainly shouldn't underestimate the massive benefit of knowing how a great lead feels.

I see "leading followers" with a initial head start of perhaps one year. This could be because these have better prerequisites, because they were more thoroughly weeded out beforehand, because they are more familiar with the milonga stress, or because of knowing how a great lead feels.

After that, so between "improver" and "intermediate", somewhere beyond "organic," none of that is relevant for progress. Either the talent is exceptional, or your partner, or it requires an investment of time and money. And if you're pursuing this as a part-time leader, it takes a long time additionally.

 

[itwillhappen]

I was discussing leading with a female friend, learning to lead. She noted the obvious fact that women are built differently and 'they get in the way' when leading other women.

Many men's bellies get in the way, too.
But when you switch roles within a tanda, often within a single song, a more cooperative leading style is appropriate anyway. So I expect a significant impact on embrace and also on invitation, on the general vibe of milongas.

And you can see how dynamically this development is progressing; it's the only segment of tango I know of with strong growth. At one event, there was an information (warning?) beforehand that quite a lot of double-role dancers had registered.
And if a woman misses the opportunity to learn to lead, then it can now be seen as her risk, her problem, if she remains seated.

 

[Brummbaer]

Many men's bellies get in the way, too.

Usually only with other males. The 'milonguero belly' usually fits neatly under a female's 'assets'. Maybe that's a reason why that pairing works so well for AT

So I expect a significant impact on embrace and also on invitation, on the general vibe of milongas.

Not necessarily. Got to keep 'authenticity' and 'traditions', you know (even some venue's códigos!)

But, seriously, adaptation is necessary if you follow that route.

At one event, there was an information (warning?) beforehand that quite a lot of double-role dancers had registered.

Sounds like one to avoid!

And if a woman misses the opportunity to learn to lead, then it can now be seen as her risk, her problem, if she remains seated.

Or, they just develop the means to invite/be invited. And/or encourage males to learn to dance.

 

[Rabbit]

An experienced follower knows the importance of a leader calibrating their lead to the follower. Greater clarity with less experienced dancers, greater subtlety and freedom for more experienced ones. That's something they can apply to their own leading.

But that's also theoretical! Occasionally one of them wants to try leading me, and I warn them at the start that I'm not a good follower. The lead is always too subtle anyway.

 

[opendoor]

..The lead is always too subtle anyway.

I think it's the followers' job to understand the lead. I actually lead very subtly. So it can happen that a follower wants to go somewhere else. Then I quickly break the connection and dance alone in the projected direction.

 

[brujo]

And you can see how dynamically this development is progressing; it's the only segment of tango I know of with strong growth. At one event, there was an information (warning?) beforehand that quite a lot of double-role dancers had registered.

I recently came across an event registration that aimed to be role balanced but also broke down the percentages of leading / following so you could register as a 75% lead and 25% follow or 25% follow and 75% lead which felt super interesting Registration

 

[itwillhappen]

Sounds like one to avoid!

The event was quite good. Last time there were complaints that too many women were sitting. I suspect the organizer wanted to avoid being criticized by either group of women this time.

 

[Bailango]

I recently came across an event registration that aimed to be role balanced but also broke down the percentages of leading / following so you could register as a 75% lead and 25% follow or 25% follow and 75% lead which felt super interesting Registration

The challenge would how the organizer can police/enforce whether people are adhering to what they registered for .

I wouldn’t want to in that organizer’s shoes!!

 

[TTanguero]

The challenge would how the organizer can police/enforce whether people are adhering to what they registered for .

This is a problem with dual-role registration in general. The typical imbalance means that there are some primary followers who register as a dual-role dancer, but then mostly follow during the event. That causes resentment on the part of genuine dual-role dancers. Allowing people to specify a percentage perhaps encourages greater honesty.

 

[itwillhappen]

If organizers experience a systematic shift, they can adjust the ratio, for example from 50:50 to 55:45.

 

[itwillhappen]

Or, they just develop the means to invite/be invited. And/or encourage males to learn to dance.

All of this will be done consciously or unconsciously, or not at all. One can also assess and accept a risk!

My impression is that experienced couples are now taking more action. Usually, the women want to learn to lead, and the men then learn to follow ... a bit.

At the point a role balance is inherently achieved at events, then it becomes obsolete as a selection criterion. Organizers could no longer conceal an intention to strive for gender balance, if so.