The long-term solution is dual-role dancing?

[Tango Distance]

I haven’t seen married men getting more dances. If man or woman is married and is at social by himself/herself (because the partner doesn’t dance) you won’t know unless they volunteer the info. I don’t have a habit of watching ring and not all married people sport a ring. Half the women I have danced with have been married but their husband/partners don’t dance. Overtime they will divulge that they are married.

Speaking to my female dance friends, none has ever shared that relationship status of a man is factor in whether they agree for a dance.

What I suspect is true is that followers could feel that man of a couple will be less likely to hit. But I don’t think it is only that on why you get more dances when you have a female partner and people know it.

Agreed that being married doesn't automatically get a man more dances. I have seen many married couples who only dance with each other, or a few where the man sits by choice while the wife dances steadily (I was in that camp in my early Tango). Having said that, I personally have found being married can be helpful (and is certainly helpful to me!). My comments presume the man's wife dances Tango, and goes with him to events.

• Seen dancing right away (I always start with my dear wife (DW)).
• Danced many times with your wife, so you have some more flashy steps you are sure you can do well.
• Perfected new steps at home
• My DW makes social connections I might not (and vice versa). This happened recently, and other similar stories have happened. There is a lady who looks like a particular beautiful famous actress and dances well. I had cabeceo'd her a number of times with no luck. I figured she was very selective and I didn't make the cut (believable since she is so good). She and my wife started talking, and she said that your husband has never asked me. My DW explained I am a cabeceo type. DW told me the story, cabeceo worked finally, and this very nice lady said she would dance with me every time I asked in the future.
• DW and I have been complimented on how we dance with everyone. People also like it that when we are ready to dance with others, we move apart.
• Ladies are interested in my DW, they ask me to point out where she is or where she is sitting, and often go talk to her. Of course, men are very interested, too. I figure it can't hurt to have the ladies interested in something associated with me!
• Once in a while DW will dance with another lady (sometimes as a leader, sometimes as a follower). By "bringing" my dw, that enabled another tanda for another lady.
• I'm not sure how well this extrapolates, but several women have told me DW they feel safe with me, I'm a total gentleman, etc. Being married I'm sure helps that perception.

There can be lessening factors:

• Someone looking for a boyfriend might prefer to dance with unmarried men.
• If you are going for sheer number of followers, a wife cuts that number down a bit. For instance, I dance multiple tandas in a night with DW, and always start and end with her.

FWIW, married or not per se doesn't matter to me. If a couple is sitting together I'll usually wait to see if they are switching partners before asking. In rare cases I have asked, like if I thought they were newbies.

 

[Rabbit]

Where is the future you are speculating? 5 years, 10 years, 50 years? I can safely bet that tango will be as it is today 10 years from now. 50 years? Who knows!

I wouldn't even bet on it in 10 years. From a dance perspective I can't stand either Mundial style or encuentro style and I'm clearly not the only person that thinks this way

 

[itwillhappen]

What’s new about women having women’s night or weekend out doing what they like doing ? Humans are social creatures. That’s what we do. Socialize around shared activities or common interests. Men can get together for golfing on the weekend or people who like running, biking, etc will arrange that followed by lunch or dinner. Yoga crowd will go for yoga retreat. Photographers arrange outings and out of town trips. People who like music will arrange overnight stays. Food and consuming it is common in all these activities.

Let's stick with tango.
Specifically, how many events or even workshops exclusively for men do you know of, and how many of them have you attended?

I know of one such event, but I'm not really interested in it:

Tangochicos - Tango Training für Männer

Das einzigartige Training für Tangueros mit den Komponeneten Balance, Stabilität, Rhythmik, Achse, Kraft, Humor, Atmung, Leichtigkeit, Musikalität, Sensibilität

www.tangochicos.com

 

[opendoor]

Let's stick with tango..

Why? I like Bailango's non-tango examples. I think all follow the same sink-and-source model.

I started with yin yoga because that's where all the yoga gazelles concentrated. I'm considering to switch now as the classes are mostly full of old white men like me, and the women are working out with barbells down in the center. When I started bachata sentsual in 2020 (tango paused), the conditions also were idyllic. Now the guys can't find a female dance partner anymore. Those women are playing golf now, since there are wealthy but unmusical young entrepreneurs.

And concerning tango: the old milongueros in BsAs didn't showed up when d'Arienzo, d'Agostino or Biagi were playing. They took their cues from Caribbean acts, because these salsa bands frequently played slow Cuban boleros, a forerunner of bachata sensual. thus completing the circle to bachata sensual.

 

[Bailango]

I wouldn't even bet on it in 10 years. From a dance perspective I can't stand either Mundial style or encuentro style and I'm clearly not the only person that thinks this way

My context was specifically about women leading women becoming prevalent milonga aspect within ten years.

I really have no idea what you meant by mundial style or encuentro style. If there are video examples of these at a milonga that would help.

 

[Bailango]

Let's stick with tango.
Specifically, how many events or even workshops exclusively for men do you know of, and how many of them have you attended?

I don’t mix with tango crowd.

I do frequently see men’s technique workshops advertised. I have attended a few out of curiosity.

You are making my point. Men don’t like to hang out with other men that’s centered around tango. But women are different. However both genders socializing around tango is not uncommon either.

Men gravitate towards certain type of events around which they will socialize. Women likewise gravitate towards certain socializing. And there is plenty common socializing where both participate.

 

[Bailango]

• My DW makes social connections I might not (and vice versa). This happened recently, and other similar stories have happened. .

Yes this certainly is an advantage of having a partner (doesn’t necessary have to be romantic). Having a partner means your social connections naturally widen. Some female friends widen my social connections and some that don’t. If your partner is an extrovert or outgoing that will certainly widen your social connections.

Story about the lady not returning cabaceo and then telling your wife you never ask is very believable. Half the ladies are unaware of a man trying to cabaceo. As I have repeatedly said many times, I have to bring to attention of my female friends that a man is trying to cabaceo or was. Then they express surprise. If they were trying to avoid they would tell me so. More than a few times a female friend has told me that a certain lady wants to dance with me.

• DW and I have been complimented on how we dance with everyone. People also like it that when we are ready to dance with others, we move apart.

Yes, people do like it when you dance with others.

• I figure it can't hurt to have the ladies interested in something associated with me!

indeed!

• I'm not sure how well this extrapolates, but several women have told me DW they feel safe with me, I'm a total gentleman, etc. Being married I'm sure helps that perception.

That type of reputation can be earned as a single man too. As there are married men who have reputation of being players.

Women often exchanged notes on these.

• Someone looking for a boyfriend might prefer to dance with unmarried men.

Hmm haven’t come across such creature yet

 

[itwillhappen]

Isn't that entirely her own fault though? She's trying to balance both clienteles, and there are consequences to doing that as opposed to appealing to one over the other.

What does "own fault" mean here? As a professional, Melina Sedó has to assess the situation and adapt while minimizing losses. After all, she essentially co-invented gender-balanced encuentros a decade ago. Now she's grown older and is shifting her focus to older women, emphasizing role balance and double role.
This has negative side effects on recruiting experienced men (and couples) for her two encuentros, that shouldn't surprise anyone, least of all her.

 

[opendoor]

..how many events or even workshops exclusively for men do you know of, and how many of them have you attended?

I had my first one in 2008. I was so enthusiastic that I attended every workshop excludively for men that was offered in my city from that moment on. Unfortunately they only were held by visiting maestros that days. When local teachers also started offering classes for men/leaders, I attended them regularly. Unfortunately, this format died out during the pandemic.
I love working exclusively with and among men. Initially, I only went to milongas for the thrill of competing with men. I observed the field and was delighted when I managed to complement a syncopated phrase with a perfectly fitting acrobatic move right before everyone's eyes.
I met my female life partners and affairs at prácticas. But at the milonga, the men were always the main focus for me.

As a professional, Melina Sedó has to assess the situation and adapt while minimizing losses..

Profs have to run every few years a new idea through the roost. Or in a common german proverb, drive another pig through the streets of our town.

 

[Brummbaer]

I only went to milongas for the thrill of competing with men.

Competing? It may once have been an aspect of tango, but not as we now know it. Knives out?

Acrobatic move?

 

[brujo]

Let's stick with tango.
Specifically, how many events or even workshops exclusively for men do you know of, and how many of them have you attended?

I’m generalizing but it feels like men’s interest in tango is women, music/dance and women’s interest is dance/music, then maybe men. So a men’s event in tango won’t get as much attendance. But I would totally go to a poker mixer or World Cup watch event with other tango dancers. Friend recently had a Super Bowl after party Milonga and if I wanted to introduce my male friends to tango, that would be an easier yes to get them to come.

 

[Miradamiranda]

It depends on so many factors if showing up solo or in a relationship gets you more dances or not. Personalities. Whether you sit together. Whether someone gives subtle ownership vibes….
For my own case, I really think I get more dances than many other women at my exact same skill level because I show up alone. I’m approachable. Guys don’t have to worry about perceived overstepping. Maybe some are looking for A partner but find a dance partner and friend instead.

 

[Tango Distance]

It depends on so many factors if showing up solo or in a relationship gets you more dances or not. Personalities. Whether you sit together. Whether someone gives subtle ownership vibes….
For my own case, I really think I get more dances than many other women at my exact same skill level because I show up alone. I’m approachable. Guys don’t have to worry about perceived overstepping. Maybe some are looking for A partner but find a dance partner and friend instead.

Offering a counterpoint data point: My dear wife (DW), at our old haunts, was easily the most popular follow, measured against all skill levels. It was very rare she sat out even one tanda. This was true whether or not I was there. In our new location, the gender balance is much worse for her, there are more very skilled dancers (and more lesser skilled dancers, too), and the milongas are far larger. Even so, I'm sure she is dancing more than or equal to 75% of follows, and wouldn't be surprised if that number was 90+%; it is 100% some nights. I'm now too busy dancing myself to count! (At our old milongas I generally danced half the night, or less, there just weren't enough followers to go around.)

Now for a more general perception: I believe ladies that arrive alone get more dances than those with partners. Some women with partners only dance with their partners (but some of those dance with everyone if they come alone); they tend to be older than the PYTs; some will only dance with other men if their partner is dancing with another lady.

Miranda, to answer your other question: I moved 1000 km, and needed to be near a particular location. We picked a place to live from within about a 40 km freeway journey from a choice of 10+ freeway paths. There were more considerations, but we did pick a place that was easily by the freeways with the most near milongas.

 

[Brummbaer]

It depends on so many factors if showing up solo or in a relationship gets you more dances or not. Personalities. Whether you sit together. Whether someone gives subtle ownership vibes….

But there's a built-in bias when you're in a 'relationship'. There used to be a 'couples' area at 'traditional' milongas. You don't have to dance with others unless you want to. You already have your dream partner - although you may both forge other dance relationships. It depends on the demographics - the older demographic may already have partners who dance. It depends whether or not you're known. Dual-role dancers may be irrelevant, or constrained to their group. It works differently! You get the tandas with the dancers you want, but you have the advantage of a fallback. Of course some stick together; some also dance with others.

 

[Bailango]

It depends on so many factors if showing up solo or in a relationship gets you more dances or not. Personalities. Whether you sit together. Whether someone gives subtle ownership vibes….
For my own case, I really think I get more dances than many other women at my exact same skill level because I show up alone. I’m approachable. Guys don’t have to worry about perceived overstepping. Maybe some are looking for A partner but find a dance partner and friend instead.

The discussion started and was pertaining to men showing up with a partner to milongas. It will be a different discussion if it were about a solo woman and woman showing up with a partner.

I can not speak for all men. I have seen enough men who have no situational awareness that indiscriminately ask everyone. If I see a lady arrive with a man or sitting with one or giving an impression she is with a partner, I try to observe (in no particular order):

1. Do the dance with others
2. Is she telegraphing availability to dance
3. Is she ignoring cabaceo from other men
4. Are they dancing together more than one tanda
5. Are they really partners

Some ladies I have danced with tell me they are there with a partner. It might be 2nd or 3rd milonga when they will tell. It is a bit surprise because they act like solo ladies. You can’t tell who is their partner till you see them leaving the milonga.

Other times you seen them and think the man is a partner. But they act so much like solo ladies you have doubts is he, isn’t he. It doesn’t really matter because as I said they act like solos.

——

Last week I went to a new milonga. It had format of one neo tanda, one alternative, two traditional. That format was pre-announced in the milonga listings. You knew before going what it would be. There were about 20 people any given time. It was fairly balanced though my first tanda was with the co-host who told me they are usually slightly short of men. There is long running popular milonga 10 minutes away.

So these two people arrive and are sitting together but with say one person empty space between them or in adjacent two/three seater sofas. (I had been using the same space to seat before they arrived). I know of the guy because he organizes a milonga. I have always seen him solo for years. He is with a woman. They were dancing the traditional tandas and seating out the non-traditional tandas. I tried to cabaceo the lady once. The next tanda was alternative, some guy comes and asks her verbally. She agrees. For next hour and half, I danced with most ladies there, with some twice. I observed that the two were dancing traditional tandas with each other and not dance the non-traditional all through the night. They were seating separately. The guy went and sat on the chair. But I didn’t see him ask another follower. When traditional tanda started either he would ask her or she would ask him. I had danced with almost all the ladies. A traditional tanda comes up and I am planning to leave an hour before close. I try to cabaceo again and I am not sure if she was avoiding or didn’t noticed. I decide to change shoes. She then gets up and asks the guy she came with to dance. It is only one anecdote but it seems she was only opened to dance non-traditional tandas with others. Also other than one leader, no leader asked her. Everyone else was solo and leaders were asking all other ladies. A couple of ladies probably knew the guy. So they asked him during the non-traditional tandas.