The top 5 reasons a woman wants to dance with a specific man

[Chris Stratton]

I would not look at a single dance or tanda in this way. When I dance at a Milonga I dance for the moment and I also think that my partner is as well.

Would you disagree that the moment is the sum of both participants specific conscious effort (if applied), their unthinking habits, and by extension their entire dance histories?

 

[DL]

This "Dance is serious business!" concept doesn't always go over very well on the average social scene.

Well, but (all else being equal) good dancers are warmly welcomed in the average scene. Not only are they technically capable, but their skill gives them the ability to provide good experiences for their partners. These traits, while perhaps not sufficient to ensure social success, certainly are appreciated.

Nobody achieves significant skill in dancing (and commensurate appreciation of that skill in social settings) without working at it, which at times means, yes, taking it seriously.

 

[little hobo]

Would you disagree that the moment is the sum of both participants specific conscious effort (if applied), their unthinking habits, and by extension their entire dance histories?

I just watched my dog chase her own tail for ten minutes.

It's cute when she does it.

 

[Zoopsia59]

There are styles of partner dancing, and then there are ways of immitating partner dance movements that are not about the partner, or are about taking without giving back. It's the latter two I am primarily talking about.

In the other case, if people realize they just aren't compatible, they should probably not try dancing together again. Doesn't mean they can't be friendly or even be friends.

There's a key difference between having ability and takingresponsability.

In answer to your previous question about strangers, you reveal more of your history than you realize - not with perfect reliability, but there's still a lot there. And even when its a mystery to others, it influences what you enjoy.

OK... I give up. It's all too vague to be useful information. I thought we covered the situation where the woman's bad attitude can change your feelings midstream, although it's still no excuse for rudeness.

I still don't see how you can tell the difference between a stranger who is learning and one who isn't. Or a stranger who has reached a plateau for awhile and someone who simply will NEVER improve, but whatever...

Clearly you had a bad experience at some point and are extrapolating that in possibly a too general manner (but without knowing what happened or having a better understanding of your point, I can't say)

Basically, you are responding to my point that a man's attitude counts for a lot with the comeback "Some women have crappy attitudes"

Yep. That's probably true.

But in my experience, the women's biggest complain is the guys' attitudes, not their dancing... even when their dancing sucks. So it seems to me that there are more men with the "Is she good enough for me?" attitude than there are women.

It also seems to me that the news that a great attitude can make up for a lot with the ladies would come as a relief to many leaders.

YMMV

 

[Zoopsia59]

Well, but (all else being equal) good dancers are warmly welcomed in the average scene. Not only are they technically capable, but their skill gives them the ability to provide good experiences for their partners. These traits, while perhaps not sufficient to ensure social success, certainly are appreciated.

Nobody achieves significant skill in dancing (and commensurate appreciation of that skill in social settings) without working at it, which at times means, yes, taking it seriously.

Allowing it to be fun and being a good dancer are not incompatible. In fact, I would argue that one is required for the other.

One can take it seriously in a lesson (although in my experience, fun lessons are more productive with results) without being so damn serious on the social dance floor.

My impression of Chris' point is that he requires a certain commitment from partners to perfect their dancing or style, and that lightheartedness and play don't have a place at a social dance

Frankly, I'm still not sure what Chris is saying, but I don't care anymore. I doubt we would make compatible partners by his standards, and maybe not by my own either.

As to good dancers being warmly welcomed.. yes... when they have a good attitude towards the rest of the community. Good dancers who are jerks are tolerated because of their dancing, but I feel the community actually develops better without people like that.

Frankly, my point all along is that good dance skill is not enough to "provide good experiences for their partners". For it to really benefit the partner and provide a good experience, the attitude must be good as well. There's no getting away from that reality. As someone else pointed out above, a tanda with an excellent leader who is bored, haughty or rude is NOT going to result in improvement of the follower's dancing despite the leader's excellent leading. In fact, it might set her back!

 

[dchester]

But in my experience, the women's biggest complain is the guys' attitudes, not their dancing... even when their dancing sucks.

So basically, there's still hope for me.

 

[Zoopsia59]

So basically, there's still hope for me.

Based on what you have written on this forum over the time I've been reading, I think I would always enjoy a tanda with you! (And I doubt you actually suck... )

:kissme:

 

[jennyisdancing]

OK... I give up. It's all too vague to be useful information.

Clearly you had a bad experience at some point and are extrapolating that in possibly a too general manner (but without knowing what happened or having a better understanding of your point, I can't say)

Basically, you are responding to my point that a man's attitude counts for a lot with the comeback "Some women have crappy attitudes"

Again Zoops, I'm in complete agreement here. There's a lot of overanalyzing going on. I'm sure I'm guilty of it too. But I really try to approach an evening by thinking:

"I enjoy dancing. I enjoy being with others and dancing with them even if our abilities are different. This will be fun. I will smile, be pleasant and friendly to my partners and do my best. I hope my partners will feel the same way."

 

[Chris Stratton]

I still don't see how you can tell the difference between a stranger who is learning and one who isn't.

Try feeling it rather than thinking about it - in perhaps a majority of cases it is crystal clear though the reasons may vary or even defy expression in words.

It's is a major component of what you seem to call their "attitude"

Clearly you had a bad experience at some point and are extrapolating that in possibly a too general manner

I pointed out quite explicitly last night that the miscommunication I was trying to untangle (had not even originally been one of the primary participants) seemed based in each side objecting to the lack of exceptions to cover their bad expetiences in the general statements being made from the other side. Because I've repeatedly pointed out that my concerns are about the bad situations rather than the good ones represented by people here, to accuse me of over generalizing is out of bounds.

 

[li]

But in my experience, the women's biggest complain is the guys' attitudes, not their dancing... even when their dancing sucks. So it seems to me that there are more men with the "Is she good enough for me?" attitude than there are women.

It also seems to me that the news that a great attitude can make up for a lot with the ladies would come as a relief to many leaders.

YMMV

The convention being that the leader is the one who is going to ask the follower for a dance, this is likely to be the perception. If the guy is going to consider whether or not he can lead her as he would wish to (both 'is he good enough' and 'is she good enough'?), if they are likely to enjoy dancing together and of course if he is likely to have his invitation rejected... and none of these considerations are communicated at the time... it is of course likely to be interpreted as an "Is she good enough for me?" attitude.

 

[Chris Stratton]

I heard what zoopsie said she wanted.

I've been trying to explaim why a number of others may find more frustrutaion in trying to get that, and what they might do, not to cause a solution alone, but to contribute to one.

 

[ant]

I would add that if you are someone who has found long term enjoyment in the world of partner dance, and what I'm calling "taking responsability" seems foreign, it's probably because you do so instinctively without having to think about it.

What I do is probabally what you do. I do lessons, I practise and I observe the etiquettes of the dance.

But where I think we differ is that I do my best not to transmit my standards onto any person I dance with during a social dance.

 

[ant]

Would you disagree that the moment is the sum of both participants specific conscious effort (if applied), their unthinking habits, and by extension their entire dance histories?

I would be thinking of my partner her needs and how to give her the best dance I can, rather than allowing unthinking habits or automatic pilot take over and expect my partner to just comply with that.

 

[Chris Stratton]

I would be thinking of my partner her needs and how to give her the best dance I can, rather than allowing unthinking habits or automatic pilot take over and expect my partner to just comply with that.

I think you would be a good dancer when you can do that without needing to think about it.

If you are doing a degree of it by thinking about it, you are a promising dancer.

If you aren't concerned for your partner, you should find another hobby, perhaps a performance (vs. partner) dance.

But then the same goes for your partner of the moment as well.

 

[ant]

I think you would be a good dancer when you can do that without needing to think about it.

If you are doing a degree of it by thinking about it, you are a promising dancer.

If you aren't concerned for your partner, you should find another hobby, perhaps a performance (vs. partner) dance.

But then the same goes for your partner of the moment as well.

That is the difference between us.

You appear to want to apply your standards to whatever partner you are with without thinking about that partner because you know best,

That way of thinking is the complaint that the AT followers at least are posting on this thread about the attitude of leaders that think like that.