The top 5 reasons a woman wants to dance with a specific man

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
Upshot is- yes the ladies do tend to be expected to accommodate in the dance, so why is it so much to expect to be treated without arrogance or accusation when something doesn't go right? That's so awfully rude.

Or should I be expected to be treated like crap even when I'm seriously trying to accommodate?
:rocker:

Yes... we are expected to do most, if not all, of the accommodating and adapting, and then when there is a problem or mistake, we are made to feel we are responsible for it occurring!

Meanwhile, we get flack for suggesting that attitude counts or that you consider us to be at as least important as you are yourself.

Is it any wonder that we get the impression that many guys are not willing to take their fair share of responsibility for the way the tanda goes and don't give a whit about how we feel afterwards?
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
Yes... we are expected to do most, if not all, of the accommodating and adapting, and then when there is a problem or mistake, we are made to feel we are responsible for it occurring!

Meanwhile, we get flack for suggesting that attitude counts or that you consider us to be at as least important as you are yourself.

Is it any wonder that we get the impression that many guys are not willing to take their fair share of responsibility for the way the tanda goes and don't give a whit about how we feel afterwards?
There's a lot of bitterness on display here. I'm fairly certain that every
guy could talk about experiencing arrogant, impatient and intolerant ladies,
especially when they're in the uncomfortable zone of learning to lead
and trying to make something of the dance and the music.

It's a moot point whether men have the more difficult job because of leading.
If you accept that and the problems that men have in trying to lead ladies
of many different abilities, and for that matter styles, what is so wrong
for women to try and adapt more than men?

But this is all so negative. It's a partner dance of two halves,
each with a positive role to play. One doesn't work without the other.
Isn't it time to stop the insults and respect one another?
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of bitterness on display here. I'm fairly certain that every
guy could talk about experiencing arrogant, impatient and intolerant ladies,
especially when they're in the uncomfortable zone of learning to lead
and trying to make something of the dance and the music.

But this is all so negative. It's a partner dance of two halves,
each with a positive role to play. One doesn't work without the other.
Isn't it time to stop the insults and respect one another?
Can't speak for anyone else, but I wasn't all that bitter when I started the thread. In fact, I was trying to make my point with a slight tongue in cheek attitude. The resistant reaction to the simple concept is what is adding to my bitterness.

I'm sure there are women who are B****y and are every bit as bad as any man. But that's not what this thread was about. (You got a little heavy handed when you thought your thread was getting hijacked, so I can be heavy handed on keeping mine strictly on topic too. :p )
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
It's a moot point whether men have the more difficult job because of leading.
If you accept that and the problems that men have in trying to lead ladies
of many different abilities, and for that matter styles, what is so wrong
for women to try and adapt more than men?
Women have to FOLLOW leaders of all different abilities and styles.. what's the difference?

Yes, I know leading is hard. I have tried to learn both leading and following. Let me tell ya, following is no easy walk in the park either. As to which is harder. yes.. a topic for another thread.

But being asked to accomodate is not the primary complaint... the issue is that we are expected to accommodate, and then we are blamed or expected to take all the responsibility for when things don't go as planned!

So we're trying our best to help out by being accommodating, and we get trashed anyway.

BTW - the fact that leading is hard is NO excuse for not being courteous to your partner. Most of us know it's hard. We aren't complaining that leaders make mistakes or have trouble.. we're complaining that so often leaders blame US for it or make us feel bad that it happened!

It can't be had both ways... if we are better able to adapt while dancing because of some reason or other, and leaders have all they can handle because leading is hard, its' not reasonable to feel that things going wrong are probably the fault of the follower! Nor is it reasonable to blame her for not being able to adapt easily or quickly if leaders don't feel that they should have to adapt at all. That means he's being critical of her for not being able to do that which he is not able to do either!
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
Women have to FOLLOW leaders of all different abilities and styles.. what's the difference?
Oh there's a difference and I'm sure you know really.
I have no idea how to start comparisons of relative difficulties,
but I can tell you that it's the lady that gets the tangasm not the man.

But you need to realize that being asked to accomodate is not the primary complaint... the issue is that we are expected to accommodate, and then we are blamed or expected to take all the responsibility for when things don't go as planned!
I don't have to realise (realize?) any such thing. You have to realise that
you have the right to refuse a repeat of such behaviour. As far as I am concerned
the leader is far more to blame. The better he is the easier it is for him to work
around so-called mistakes. I like the concept that in tango there is no such thing
as being on the wrong foot. It's taken quite a while to get fluent enough to make
that a practicality and it's by no means perfect yet.


BTW - the fact that leading is hard is NO excuse for not being courteous to your partner. Most of us know it's hard. We aren't complaining that leaders make mistakes or have trouble.. we're complaining that so often leaders blame US for it or make us feel bad that it happened!
Odd that! I always feel bad when it goes wrong.
Actually these days, much less so as there's so many ways to get by.
But no, he shouldn't complain (assuming you don't either!) and make you feel bad.


It can't be had both ways... if we are better able to adapt while dancing because of some reason or other, and leaders have all they can handle because leading is hard, its' not reasonable to feel that things going wrong are probably the fault of the follower! Nor is it reasonable to blame her for not being able to adapt easily or quickly if leaders don't feel that they should have to adapt at all. That means he's being critical of her for not being able to do that which he is not able to do either!
I think you lost me - it's late. I'll take the blame . . . . .
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
I would only note that on the thread where men state their preferences women haven't come on an nit picked every man's preferences ad nauseaum...I think a good deal of what we are seeing on this thread is a certain amount of justifiable frustration with certain inabilities to both comprehend and respect the honest answers from the female perspective...yes, some of them may seem ambiguous to some men, but I would maintain that that is not solely reserved to the subject of dance...I think there are a number of ladies who have answered in good faith and had their answers picked to death beyond the scope of usefulness and have become notably annoyed...admittedly, a few of them may need to monitor themselves a bit :)...but the frustration is IMV, understandable
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
it's the lady that gets the tangasm not the man
But only if he makes her feel great! (getting back on topic and back to my original point) The tangasm only happens when he has a great attitude to go with his dancing

Thank you for helping me with my original point! :D
 

AndaBien

Well-Known Member
But only if he makes her feel great!...
The point I'm try to focus attention on is that there is a chasm between making her feel great and not complaining. Not complaining is easy. Making her feel great is tough and might require acting that goes beyond reality.

If I give my partner the idea that the dance was great, I want her to know that the dance really was great, and that I'm not just trying to make her feel great. If I say to my partner after a tanda that I might as well just go home now, I want her to think I really mean it. I don't want her to think it's something I say to all the ladies.
 

DL

Well-Known Member
or the 'advanced' Standard dancers who sometimes deign to show up and are more interested in putting the follow through her paces to see if she can be used to show off his fancy technique.

Who knows, maybe you would put me in this category.

Of course, I don't think of my dancing that way. I just try to dance with the best technique I can, doing my best to choose figures I can lead confidently and that I think my partner of the moment can follow, while staying on time and navigating the floor to avoid collisions or cutting off fellow leaders. Nonetheless, sometimes I really have a tough time leading some follows, to the point where we're not even making weight changes at the same time. In a case like that, it's not that I'm trying to show off technique and put her through paces. I'm making a good faith effort. But to really make her happy with the dance, might just take more skill and/or understanding than I've accumulated so far.

It has been my experience that some ladies take for granted that I have skill to provide a comfortable dance, and are upset if I don't, and ascribe personal motivations to my failure.

PS

I never suggest -- nor do I here -- that a failure in such a case might be the fault of my partner. Nor do I complain, nor do I fail to thank my partner for the dance.

PPS

Then there are other ladies who consistently say that they enjoy dancing with me. So to answer whether a woman wants to dance with a specific man -- I think the answer is linked not only to properties of the specific man, but to properties of the woman, as well.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
The point I'm try to focus attention on is that there is a chasm between making her feel great and not complaining. Not complaining is easy. Making her feel great is tough and might require acting that goes beyond reality.

If I give my partner the idea that the dance was great..
It seems there is still some confusion about whether the dance has to be great for people to feel good at the end of the tanda. The dancing can be a disaster, but approached with a sense of humor and generosity, it doesn't have to be a bad experience.

Haven't you ever laughed with the other person about a fooba that occurred? I've seen people actually go down in a heap and be able to laugh about it or joke later about it... what could possibly be more of a disaster during a tanda than falling on the floor? (well, not counting making some other couple hit the floor!)

Also, there are more ways to be "complaining" than just verbally. And more ways to express dissatisfaction than just verbally.

I think if a world famous leader can dance with a much lower level dancer and leave her feeling good, it's pretty clear that the attitude and the assessment of the partner's dancing or the relative "greatness" of the dance itself don't have to be tied together.

Every time we mention something about making the partner feel good (or at least not making her feel bad) someone mentions that if the dance isn't good, then he'll have to pretend or act. That tells me that people are still determining whether or not they had a good time and whether they help the other person have a good time based primarily on the quality of one or both person's dancing.

What I have been trying to say ad nauseum, that either is not getting through or there's just too much resistance to the whole concept of responsibility for one's own attitude, is that, again:

The dance doesn't have to be wonderful for the experience to be wonderful

I've said this over and over using way too many words, and frankly, I give up.
 

fascination

Site Moderator
Staff member
here's the thing ...just because one puts forth an effort one doesn't feel doesn't mean it's fake...sometimes our affections take a break and the most loving noble thing one can do is to be kind and loving in the absence of feeling it...it isn't being fake, it is being selfless and transcendent...and, IMO, it is a sad day when people think an important part of authenticity is being candid about whatever affect they are currently lacking...emotions come and go...character is a decision...if that is being fake I gladly claim it...but frankly, I seek to be far better than the lowest feelings I experience
 

DL

Well-Known Member
The dance doesn't have to be wonderful for the experience to be wonderful

I've said this over and over using way too many words, and frankly, I give up.
You say this, but another lady says laments gents "more interested in putting the follow through her paces to see if she can be used to show off his fancy technique."

Well, for the exact same gent, you and she might both agree the dance wasn't wonderful. You and she might disagree on whether the experience was wonderful.
 
That tells me that people are still determining whether or not they had a good time and whether they help the other person have a good time based primarily on the quality of one or both person's dancing.
No, not on the quality of their dancing, but on the partner focus of it.

I've said this over and over using way too many words, and frankly, I give up.
You've said your piece over and over again, while repeatedly putting your assumptions ahead of the actual concerns of the other side.

Thus you get nowhere.
 

madmaximus

Well-Known Member
OT: I once went to a group class after spending the day making pot roast. Apparently, I was heavily scented with pot roast. I was *very* popular.

It was funny, actually. I've never been sniffed that much, that obviously. So, in order to get dances, I should dab a bit of pot roast behind each ear instead of perfume? ewwww
OT

A little late to the party, but j_a you owe me a martini that went up my nose when I read this ROTFL.

Nothing like the sweet scent of eau d'roast beouf on a gorgeous nape to spice up the dancing.






m
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
You say this, but another lady says laments gents "more interested in putting the follow through her paces to see if she can be used to show off his fancy technique."

Well, for the exact same gent, you and she might both agree the dance wasn't wonderful. You and she might disagree on whether the experience was wonderful.
As I interpret her post, she and I would agree that the experience WASN'T wonderful. In fact, as I interpret her post, she is in agreement that this sort of "testing" of the follower is annoying as heck and contrary to my stated preference. So I'm not sure why you chose her post as an example? :confused:
 

DL

Well-Known Member
As I interpret her post, she and I would agree that the experience WASN'T wonderful. In fact, as I interpret her post, she is in agreement that this sort of "testing" of the follower is annoying as heck and contrary to my stated preference. So I'm not sure why you chose her post as an example? :confused:
How do you know it was the leader testing the follower? That's a subjective characterization. Please see also my post #210.

http://dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=814811&postcount=210
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
How do you know it was the leader testing the follower? That's a subjective characterization.
YOU said so!

In post 213 which I quoted.. she laments the gent putting the follow through her paces to see if he could use her to show off! I'm responding to that! So yes, I assumed from YOUR statement that it was a leader putting the follower through her paces.
SHeesh!
 

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