The top 5 reasons a woman wants to dance with a specific man

ant said:
versus



Skill does not equate to comfort. A good caring attitude by both partners does, which is what most of the AT followers have been saying.

I think we should leave it here because it may have something to do with our individual aims. It appears to me that the aims of many ballroom dancers, which I understand is your preferred dance, is to achieve medals and succeed in competitions. Don't take that the wrong way, if that is your aim that is fine and along with that will go investment in the required skills for those aims. I have no interest in medals or competitions but just to enjoy for its own sake my AT dancing with what ever that takes with each individudal partner. I think that requires an investment in different skills. Not neccessarily better but different.
Click to expand...

Ant has a very good point. Skill does not equate to comfort (at least in Argentine Tango). However, I did do ballroom for 10 years before tango and this particular type of subject never really came up that I can recall.

The nature of tango (as far as I've been able to tell in 5 years) is such that much of the experience is highly individualized and there is no "standard" embrace to achieve to interact with a person. There are some techniques that do get applied across the board but those don't ensure a comfortable dance (like a smooth walk or great balance). The comfort part comes mainly from the personal interaction- so a nice embrace, respect and good attitude from both parties tends to make up a large portion of a persons personal experience of another's dancing, at least IMO. The technical bits definitely help too, but being perfect in those definitely doesn't ensure a comfortable or enjoyable dance with another person in tango.
Perhaps it does in ballroom, and so that may be the root of this long discussion.
 
You seem to define technique much more narrowly than I. I would think that holding each other without crushing, finding a suitable range of any weight sharing, etc would be prime examples of technical skills of key importance to a partner's comfort.
 
bastet said:
Skill does not equate to comfort (at least in Argentine Tango). .........

There are some techniques that do get applied across the board but those don't ensure a comfortable dance (like a smooth walk or great balance). The comfort part comes mainly from the personal interaction- so a nice embrace, respect and good attitude from both parties tends to make up a large portion of a persons personal experience of another's dancing, at least IMO. The technical bits definitely help too, but being perfect in those definitely doesn't ensure a comfortable or enjoyable dance with another person in tango.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if I agree with your idea of the source of "comfort". Maybe we should separate physical comfort from mental comfort.

A jerky walk, uncertain balance or lack of clarity would decrease my physical comfort, and other things like a rigid embrace, awkward arm position or repeated mistimings would seriously reduce it. However, if I felt mentally comfortable with that partner I would probably feel it was enjoyable to dance with them anyway or attempt to work out a more agreeable physical rapport. But I couldn't fail to notice the lack of physical technique.


The "ideal" dance would surely draw equally on good physical technique and good interpersonal skills. Otherwise, why are we bothering to try to acquire them?
 
Chris Stratton said:
You seem to define technique much more narrowly than I. I would think that holding each other without crushing, finding a suitable range of any weight sharing, etc would be prime examples of technical skills of key importance to a partner's comfort.
Click to expand...


of course! How could I be so silly? If all my partner were willing and able to change their dance embrace/style for every partner they dance with, this discussion would never have come up.
 
Madahlia said:
I'm not sure if I agree with your idea of the source of "comfort". Maybe we should separate physical comfort from mental comfort.

A jerky walk, uncertain balance or lack of clarity would decrease my physical comfort, and other things like a rigid embrace, awkward arm position or repeated mistimings would seriously reduce it. However, if I felt mentally comfortable with that partner I would probably feel it was enjoyable to dance with them anyway or attempt to work out a more agreeable physical rapport. But I couldn't fail to notice the lack of physical technique.


The "ideal" dance would surely draw equally on good physical technique and good interpersonal skills. Otherwise, why are we bothering to try to acquire them?
Click to expand...

yes- and I did mention this. But just having a smooth walk or good balance won't ensure comfort either, which is what had been implied earlier int he discussion.

So I'll repeat. Technical skills do play a role, but are not the source of a comfortable dance in AT.
 
bastet said:
of course! How could I be so silly? If all my partner were willing and able to change their dance embrace/style for every partner they dance with, this discussion would never have come up.
Click to expand...

Hmm... off topic but should be relevant: I saw a few glimpses of a partnership tryout yesterday, and talked to one of the people after they'd decided not to proceed, in large part over differences of style. I pointed out that while there were some differences, each was doing what they believed in to a degree that wouldn't have worked even for someone who shared their stylistic preference.

So there's agreeing or disagreeing over style... and then there's the question of doing the style you prefer in a way that is or isn't workable for a second body.
 
Chris Stratton said:
Hmm... off topic but should be relevant: I saw a few glimpses of a partnership tryout yesterday, and talked to one of the people after they'd decided not to proceed, in large part over differences of style. I pointed out that while there were some differences, each was doing what they believed in to a degree that wouldn't have worked even for someone who shared their stylistic preference.

So there's agreeing or disagreeing over style... and then there's the question of doing the style you prefer in a way that is or isn't workable for a second body.
Click to expand...

You're still applying ballroom thinking from what I can tell so most of this conversation will be moot and to get in to it leads to any number of 20 page wars over the different tango "styles" some of which require different techniques from the other, some of which are compatible and some which are not (apilado for instance).

Each of these requires the person learn certain body techniques that they spend literally years learning how to do well, and most of the people I know of that can switch comfortably from one to another are masters who teach and not average social dancers.

I really don't want to get in to this more, but suggesting the things you did as if they are "simple" as applied to AT is incorrect, IMO at least. I adapt as much as my current training allows to a partner, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, even with someone who dances in a similar style to me. Trying to tell someone who's been trained to keep her "ribs forward" to just go ahead and keep them back, is like trying to tell ballroom people the walk in AT is different and expect them to just make an automatic change to it. I have not seen any yet who could, even the ballroom teachers.
 
bastet said:
You're still applying ballroom thinking from what I can tell so most of this conversation will be moot and to get in to it leads to any number of 20 page wars over the different tango "styles" some of which require different techniques from the other, some of which are compatible and some which are not (apilado for instance).
Click to expand...

What is common is that you can't do something that wouldn't even work for a person of the substyle you claim to be doing, and blame the problem on a difference of style.
 
bastet said:
Y
Each of these requires the person learn certain body techniques that they spend literally years learning how to do well, and most of the people I know of that can switch comfortably from one to another are masters who teach and not average social dancers.
Click to expand...


Exactly.. the question of crushing embraces or amount of weight sharing assumes that there is a "correct" amount of weight sharing, resistance, or type of embrace. In AT that "right" way simply doesn't exist. It's a matter of preference (even within a style) Ideally, people make adjustments in order to dance with a variety of people (although in my experience, followers adjust more than leaders) to find the "right" technique for them as a couple and at that time, to that music in that particular circumstance, that night, for that tanda..That's about as "correct" as its going to get.However, doing this is a very advanced skill, not a basic skill that I'd expect of everyone I dance with. So if you are considering this as part of the "skill set" that someone needs to have in order to take proper care of their partner's comfort, you're going to be pretty frustrated in AT trying to find someone to dance with. But then, as I said, the followers typically seem to adapt more than the leaders, so maybe you'd be fine (although you WON"T be one of those guys I was describing at the beginning of this thread).

Correct just isn't as easily defined in AT as in Ballroom. In fact, defining it can be somewhat counterproductive to achieving the advanced skill of being able to adapt to any partner.
 
Chris, I'm not asking this to challenge you or put you down in any way. I want to get an idea of how much common frame of reference we have for this discussion. Have you done much Argentine Social Tango or attending milongas regularly?
 
Zoopsia59 said:
Exactly.. the question of crushing embraces or amount of weight sharing assumes that there is a "correct" amount of weight sharing, resistance, or type of embrace. In AT that "right" way simply doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

The "right" way might not exist, but plenty of "wrong" ways do.

They can be easily defined as those that don't even work for the people who agree with you.
 
bastet said:
yes- and I did mention this. But just having a smooth walk or good balance won't ensure comfort either, which is what had been implied earlier int he discussion.

So I'll repeat. Technical skills do play a role, but are not the source of a comfortable dance in AT.
Click to expand...

I read your OP again and felt that I would weight things slightly differently. So I would say, "Interpersonal skills play a strong role, but are not enough by themselves to guarantee a comfortable dance."

But I'm absolutely sure there's not enough uncommon ground between us to warrant 10 pages of ever more combative and hair-splitting posts. As if anyone would.;)
 
Madahlia said:
I read your OP again and felt that I would weight things slightly differently. So I would say, "Interpersonal skills play a strong role, but are not enough by themselves to guarantee a comfortable dance."
Click to expand...


It's not a problem to want to weight the importance elsewhere for yourself so that's fine for you to do. I think my viewpoint relates to where I place the main importance which is fine for me.

For instance, in my community there is not anyone I would consider to have excellent to outstanding technical ability (myself included). However, there are people with excellent interpersonal skills (and reasonably good technical skills) and I do have very good dances with them as a result and that is why I weight social dancing towards interpersonal skills over technical ability. A perfect combination of both, probably would lead to tango ecstasy. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top