Tips for leaders with mediocre dissociation?

[Zoopsia59]

Oh, and has anyone else worked on "pivoting in place" by first turning your torso, then rotating you hips past where your torso moved to, then again rotating the torso past the hips, etc, all in the same direction to complete a turn in place without "stepping"?

I've tried the variation of rotating the torso, letting the hips catch up, and then rotating the torso again, etc... maybe the reason it feels awkward is that I should be letting the hips over-rotate rather than merely catch up?

I've also used a more "ballet" approach which is fairly contrary to AT technique... shift the heel slightly and let the rest of the body catch up as one unit. That was how I was taught to go around on my own when standing in arabesque. It works best for an "inside" rotational direction. (can't remember how to spell the French term... en dedans, as opposed to en dehors - outside?) The direction that results in your foot being more turned out, not more pigeon toed.

It doesn't translate well to AT dancing, but I find myself doing it anyway, often in conjunction somehow with the upper body rotation.

 

[mkjohnson]

Oh, and has anyone else worked on "pivoting in place" by first turning your torso, then rotating you hips past where your torso moved to, then again rotating the torso past the hips, etc, all in the same direction to complete a turn in place without "stepping"?

Steve - I have. Daniela Arcuri teaches a version of that. I pretty much suck at it. I can do it - but it's not pretty in the least. It's a good exercise and I noticed improvement in my disassociation - but it still kicks my butt.

 

[dchester]

Don't worry, if we aren't sync'ed by the middle of tune 1, I won't be blaming you...

Unless of course, you really DO suck. :friend:

There are certainly some who don't like my style.

(but then I remember something I was told: "No matter how good you get, there will always be someone who won't like your dance").

 

[dchester]

Oh, and has anyone else worked on "pivoting in place" by first turning your torso, then rotating you hips past where your torso moved to, then again rotating the torso past the hips, etc, all in the same direction to complete a turn in place without "stepping"?

Yes. It's one of several moves I suck so bad at, that I've concluded it's a stupid move and no one should do it.

:headwall:

 

[Mario7]

You know how to use your body to start the sequence with either the back or the front ocho, correct? (after the initiating side step) So you already know to use your body to indicate her steps. Most likely you are still doing the indicators during the sequence..

I'm going on a 'feel' thing here....if one wants a back cross rather than a front cross; something happens in terms of the throwing the momentum further or nearer to the torso (leader) ... I'll have to check next time to see if I can consciously describe it better... Would anyone take a shot at describing the difference in the lead of the two steps when beginning and continuing a molinette?? thks (ps-close embrace)

 

[Mario7]

I find the Apilado CW giro to be quite awkward unless my partner gives me a good strong turn. When she does, I really enjoy it. I have only a few partners who I try it with. I can do it with lots of partners, but I have to come out of the zone to make it happen, so I usually don't lead it.

That's interesting because CW is my favorite direction, I like the added resistence (friction) I feel that there is more contact and control.

 

[Steve Pastor]

Same as leading either a "front ocho" or a "back ocho".

 

[Mario7]

Same as leading either a "front ocho" or a "back ocho".

A better wording of my question..after a side step to the left, and I decide to lead the front or back left cross, I guess it's my right side of my torso whether I lead inward or outward for the front or back cross. Does this sound right? ..or is there a better way to think/feel it?

 

[Zoopsia59]

I'm going on a 'feel' thing here....if one wants a back cross rather than a front cross; something happens in terms of the throwing the momentum further or nearer to the torso (leader) ... I'll have to check next time to see if I can consciously describe it better... Would anyone take a shot at describing the difference in the lead of the two steps when beginning and continuing a molinette?? thks (ps-close embrace)

I described this in another post somewhere... as I recall, you said it contained a great deal of info to be mined and that you were keeping it. I'll try to find it.

 

[Zoopsia59]

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=35386

excerpt from my post #5 with bold for emphasis and some additional thoughts:

<<<Whether she goes forward on her left or back on her left, she is still starting the CCW molinete from something that put her on her right leg.

The difference for her ocho is in where YOUR weight is when you pivot your upper body (towards your left for the CCW). If your weight is on your right leg when you pivot, you open a space for her that makes her naturally take the forward ocho on her left leg towards your left. If you pivot with your weight on your left leg, she will be sent into a back ocho, still CCW

Either way, SHE is on her right and ocho'ing with her left leg and going CCW.>>>

So its not really about your right side so much as it is about where your weight is... over your right or over your left. If your weight is over your right, you don't really want to twist your right shoulder forward, that would be awkward. You want think of rotating your left shoulder back. Even when over your left, you shouldn't REALLY think about sending your right side forward.

In reality though, as long as your weight is clearly over one side or the other, its almost more like both shoulders moving from the center of your body, but I think it helps to avoid thinking of ever pushing forward with one side.. doing that tends to make it harder to keep the chest projected because leaders tend to collapse a little when they try to send one shoulder forward in a twist.

Let me know if you need clarification after you read this.

 

[dchester]

A better wording of my question..after a side step to the left, and I decide to lead the front or back left cross, I guess it's my right side of my torso whether I lead inward or outward for the front or back cross. Does this sound right? ..or is there a better way to think/feel it?

It gets a little tricky, as some followers will have a clear preference on whether to do the front or back after the first side, so (unless you know the follower reasonably well), you must eliminate the possibility of her taking the step you don't want.

In close embrace, you have to create some space for her to step into, for her to take the front step. If you do not, the only choice then is the back step.

For the CCW turn, after you took a step to you left, one way (but certainly not the only way) is for you to pivot on you left foot while not allowing any chance of an opening to occur, will lead her to do the back step. If instead, you pivot on your right foot (once again CCW), you can create the space/opening she needs (and it's the followers job to maintain the embrace) thus she'll need to do the front step.

Once you get more proficient, you find that either one (back or front) could be lead from either foot (of yours). But the way I suggested hopefully will get you started (and why do it the hard way first).

 

[Zoopsia59]

For the CCW turn, after you took a step to you left, one way (but certainly not the only way) is for you to pivot on you left foot while not allowing any chance of an opening to occur, will lead her to do the back step. If instead, you pivot on your right foot (once again CCW), you can create the space/opening she needs (and it's the followers job to maintain the embrace) thus she'll need to do the front step.

we have so obviously had some of the same influences.... :friend:

Its going to be pretty embarressing if we can't dance well together if we ever meet!

 

[dchester]

we have so obviously had some of the same influences.... :friend:

Its going to be pretty embarressing if we can't dance well together if we ever meet!

Yes, but I'm up to the challenge. BTW, I'm heading to Boston tomorrow night, just in case.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Yes, but I'm up to the challenge. BTW, I'm heading to Boston tomorrow night, just in case.

I'll be dancing here, so ... no.
Might go to J.'s later in the month...?

 

[Mario7]

Thanks folks, that's a nice description of the variance in wt. shifts during the turn.