What are DJs doing wrong

[pianistamediano]

Looser ! ( )

Its quite simple to dance to. Just map the intensity, the dynamics, the atmosphere!

( I find that some GA tangos are much more demanding dance-wise than that Sonata VI. )

As a pianist who knows it intimately, I do not believe that any dancer in the world is capable of dancing it well enough to express the minute nuances and subtleties. I remain open, however - any couple is free to record it, and I shall judge it with the same lack of mercy I apply to my own playing!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

This is a false report spread by untalented dancers and tango studio owners!

Piazzola said his music was not for dancing and didn't like the idea of people dancing to it. One can dance late Pugliese I suppose, that does not mean it was intended for dancing at the local milongas. For listening, yes. And there's quite a bit of late tango music that is nice to listen to but not all that intersting to dance to. But, hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Rabbit]

As a pianist who knows it intimately, I do not believe that any dancer in the world is capable of dancing it well enough to express the minute nuances and subtleties. I remain open, however - any couple is free to record it, and I shall judge it with the same lack of mercy I apply to my own playing!

There is a piano at the milonga venue, I will accept a live and unrehearsed challenge after the milonga to anything you feel like playing

 

[pianistamediano]

There is a piano at the milonga venue, I will accept a live and unrehearsed challenge after the milonga to anything you feel like playing

Let me get back to regularly practising first! Haven't touched a piano for months.

(Maybe I should start looking into John Cage's Music of Changes... )

 

[opendoor]

Piazzola said his music was not for dancing and didn't like the idea of people dancing to it..

I know the man had a vision and an agenda: bring an operatic argentine avant-garde style to the most famous orchestra halls worldwide. (Piazzolla climbed the greasy pole, he played for years GA dance music with his own and other orquesta típicas for untalented dancers on the pista).

But honestly, is Piazzolla's vision still binding for me, @Arbee ? If his late music knocks me off my seat and catapults me onto the dance floor, that's my business. The maestro should please stop interfering!

 

[Brummbaer]

If his late music knocks me off my seat and catapults me onto the dance floor, that's my business. The maestro should please stop interfering

It depends where you do it. It can be like dancing tango when it should be milonga, poor floorcraft, high sacadas, blocking the ronda, infinite follower pasadas, etc, etc. If you like it, and dance to it with those who are sympathetic, fine; but don't impose it on others, the 'customers', who, in that context, don't.

 

[LadyLeader]

As a pianist who knows it intimately, I do not believe that any dancer in the world is capable of dancing it well enough to express the minute nuances and subtleties.

I think the musicians and dancers have different relation to the music. A dancer does not need to follow the music as detailed as it is written and as dancers do today. The genius dancers' relation to the music could be more like Picassos relation to the painting motive. He could paint detailed, naturalistic but chooses to paint his feeling instead, a strong interpretation.

My limited knowledge gives only Horacio Godoy trying to dance his feeling instead of the detailed version of the sounding music.

 

[opendoor]

..with those who are sympathetic...

You strongly defend the mainstream, don't you? I miss some of your willingness to experiment and some enthusiasm!

..can be like ..poor floorcraft, high sacadas, blocking the ronda, infinite follower pasadas, etc, etc...

When I started dancing tango the average level in floorcraft actually was higher. And late Piazzolla was often played. With the advent of codigos and the concentration on a specific selection of music, floorcraft steadily declined. Trendy innovations like low boleos and sacadas are not always helpful.

 

[opendoor]

..My limited knowledge gives only Horacio Godoy..

What did he teach you? In contrast, his shows actually speak a different language!

 

[Brummbaer]

You strongly defend the mainstream, don't you? I miss some of your willingness to experiment and some enthusiasm!

'Joined' to dance AT; not to experiment with some newer 'nuevo' or freestyle to music not intended for dance, especially in the context where others are following the 'norm'. But that doesn't mean that AT has to be stuck in a rut doomed to poor, scratchy, recordings of another era, or to discard newer AT danceable compositions without the grand orchestra.

 

[Rabbit]

Piazzola said his music was not for dancing and didn't like the idea of people dancing to it. One can dance late Pugliese I suppose, that does not mean it was intended for dancing at the local milongas. For listening, yes. And there's quite a bit of late tango music that is nice to listen to but not all that intersting to dance to. But, hey, whatever floats your boat.

Piazzolla had a complicated relationship with dancers. he was active in the GA milonga scene, writing arrangements for Troilo and subsequently leading his own OT. he got tired of the people complaining his music was difficult to dance to and after disbanding the OT decided that he wasn't going to make musical compromises anymore for the sake of making it easy to dance to. When he said his music wasn't "dance music" we should understand it in this context. He would have fully understood that some people would dance to it, he just didn't want to be constrained by the expectations of dancers in a milonga. Of course many subsequent arrangements by other musical groups of Piazzolla's compositions do make compromises to a greater or lesser extent.

And well, when I play music for dancers, I compromise.

When I dance, I would prefer that whoever is playing does not compromise, because I don't need the compromises.

I can therefore sympathize with Piazzolla's frustration.

 

[pianistamediano]

A dancer does not need to follow the music as detailed as it is written and as dancers do today. The genius dancers' relation to the music could be more like Picassos relation to the painting motive. He could paint detailed, naturalistic but chooses to paint his feeling instead, a strong interpretation.

I think you are underestimating musicians. There is so much more than just following the music as written.

At least from a classical music perspective, we analyse the piece in detail, attempt to grasp and understand every single nuance and subtlety, determine which techniques we should use... Then we have to express the textures and overall progression of the music using available instruments (all the while hearing and adjusting to the unique timbres and sounds produced by the instruments, trying to elicit the best sounds possible). That's not even getting into the feelings associated with the piece. I am glossing over a lot of things, but a lot of information and thought and practice goes into playing even one piece.

And then when we perform/play it after all that, we synthesize everything above into our interpretation of the piece. All that work is condensed into a singular whole. Those "genius" dancers may very well be following an analogous process.

I take the same approach with my dance. Steps alone aren't enough; breaking them down into their base components isn't enough; the myriad methods to do a movement aren't enough. To adequately express the music and the feelings associated with it, I need micro adjustments and movements that can only be felt by myself and my partner, which is why I am working on proprioception and control of my body. Sure, by the time I reach any semblance of my end goal, only the most sensitive and responsive followers will be able to detect all that, but I consider it worthwhile.

(Which isn't the same as dancing every note, let me make it clear. That's just superficial musicality, at best a demonstration of physicality.)

I have nothing but contempt for dancers who are arrogant enough to believe that they — or their feelings — are above the music. In that case, they may as well be dancing to the sound of one hand clapping.

 

[LadyLeader]

In contrast, his shows actually speak a different language!

Yeah, his shows flow well along to the music.

What did he teach you?

I have never taken a class with him, just heard him talking.

 

[LadyLeader]

I think you are underestimating musicians. There is so much more than just following the music as written.

At least from a classical music perspective, we analyse the piece in detail, attempt to grasp and understand every single nuance and subtlety, determine which techniques we should use... Then we have to express the textures and overall progression of the music using available instruments (all the while hearing and adjusting to the unique timbres and sounds produced by the instruments, trying to elicit the best sounds possible). That's not even getting into the feelings associated with the piece. I am glossing over a lot of things, but a lot of information and thought and practice goes into playing even one piece.

And then when we perform/play it after all that, we synthesize everything above into our interpretation of the piece. All that work is condensed into a singular whole. Those "genius" dancers may very well be following an analogous process.

I take the same approach with my dance. Steps alone aren't enough; breaking them down into their base components isn't enough; the myriad methods to do a movement aren't enough. To adequately express the music and the feelings associated with it, I need micro adjustments and movements that can only be felt by myself and my partner, which is why I am working on proprioception and control of my body. Sure, by the time I reach any semblance of my end goal, only the most sensitive and responsive followers will be able to detect all that, but I consider it worthwhile.

(Which isn't the same as dancing every note, let me make it clear. That's just superficial musicality, at best a demonstration of physicality.)

I have nothing but contempt for dancers who are arrogant enough to believe that they — or their feelings — are above the music. In that case, they may as well be dancing to the sound of one hand clapping.

You are right to some extent! I am not a musician and for sure I do not fully understand the whole load of work musicians do. But the orchestras have thought me how different a tango can sound played by them and how a single musician could create a new sound for a whole orchestra.
My dancing would not exist without their work!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

But honestly, is Piazzolla's vision still binding for me, @Arbee ? If his late music knocks me off my seat and catapults me onto the dance floor, that's my business. The maestro should please stop interfering!

As they say, whatever floats your boat. However, you won't be dancing traditional Argentine tango. You can choreograph an interpretive dance to many things, even Piazzola, but that does not make it tango Argentino.