What are the technical elements of a pleasant embrace?

[ArbeeNYC]

No wonder those who learnt dancing in pre early 2000s display a lot of influence of show tango moves in their dancing. Or fancy steps.

Depends where they learned and who from. I have a friend who learned around then, maybe a bit earlier. But he spent time in B.A., took classes with Gavito and others, and does nothing that resembles show tango. As the show said: The truth is out there (you just have to look for it). I do agree that the successful tango shows did much to jump-start the revival.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

The first tango teachers in my hometown followed Todaro, Pugliese or Dinzel, in other words, stage dancers.

Yes, that's the problem. They weren't following the milongueros. They were emulating dancers who were also performers.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Not at all, it's just my reaction to the repeated mentioning of the word "traditional" with a normative connotation.

The tradition--which had variants--is the non-performance, non-show tradition of tango danced in the salons. It's the tango del centro and the tango del barrio that was danced in B.A. It's not that complicated.

 

[opendoor]

Yes, that's the problem. They weren't following the milongueros. They were emulating dancers who were also performers.

You did not understand! The milongueros only years later did return to the style you know. There was no continuity. If you believe the old milongueros, then you have given yourself away. I know enough of them, including their family members and critics.

 

[opendoor]

..tango del centro..

This is a neologism by Horacio El Pebete.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

You did not understand! The milongueros only years later did return to the style you know. There was no continuity. If you believe the old milongueros, then you have given yourself away. I know enough of them, including their family members and critics.

So you're claiming that the men and women who were dancing in the 1950s got it all wrong or were being dishonest? I would have thought their personal experience counted for something. They were certainly closer to tango's traditions and origin than we'll ever be. When do you believe they "returned" to the style I know? And when do you believe that style originated?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

This is a neologism by Horacio El Pebete.

Oh, really?

 

[Be Present]

I really hate these arguments about origins of tango and authenticity.

What matters is that you have a style that you are comfortable with and reasonably good at and you enjoy the dance. And that you don’t assume that everyone else is wrong instead of different.

I expressed how much I like a lower ribcage/belly connection point. I don’t know if that was done early on or not. All i know is that it works really well for me and that’s what matters.

For the 3 years I was learning tango it was salon style from a wonderful local instructor. I never realized there was such a thing as milonguero until I ventured to a big city festival. At this festival i had the unfortunate experience of a lot of people telling me that i was doing everything wrong even though i could do all of the advanced workshops with no difficulty because they were all taught in a salon style open embrace.

At the festival Milongas the locals were all strict adherents of chest pushing milonguero style. I left feeling so dejected. What I realized as i kept going to events in that town is that they could all dance in a more open embrace, but they chose to pressure me into a milonguero embrace even though I was clearly uncomfortable.

That was when I almost left tango. Not because of the dance, but because people can be jerks.

Luckily, i found other groups in the same city who were warm and welcoming and not a clique. The other group’s leaders were patient and let me ease into a close embrace, and none of them pushed excessively with their chest.

I really think we have to be careful about puritanical tango beliefs.

I am rebuilding the tango community in my hometown and i am teaching in a way where I inform people that there is more than one way to do something and in a way where the people will be warm and welcoming. this is more important to me than them being perfect at tango.

In the end, it does not matter much how good our tango is. It matters how good we are.

I could be wrong.

Just some food for thought.

 

[pianistamediano]

... they chose to pressure me into a milonguero embrace even though I was clearly uncomfortable.

That's just ridiculous and uncalled for. It's social dancing, no one should be forced to dance in a way they don't want to.

I'm very much of the opinion people should spend time and effort on developing their own unique ways of dancing. I actively support the diversity of styles, and am very much against what I deem the standardisation of tango and the slow convergence towards Mundial style and variants. May a thousand flowers bloom!

 

[pianistamediano]

I am rebuilding the tango community in my hometown and i am teaching in a way where I inform people that there is more than one way to do something and in a way where the people will be warm and welcoming. this is more important to me than them being perfect at tango.

In the end, it does not matter much how good our tango is. It matters how good we are.

I think that as long as people are happy with where they are, and what they're capable of doing, then it is not wrong. I could hardly care less if a couple is embarking on a career in tango escenario or just shuffling around the pista; if they aren't disturbing anyone and maintaining the flow of the dancefloor, then it's all good for me.

That said, I am a very strong proponent of the maxim that no one is obligated to dance with anyone.

I dislike the fact that many dancers think that being friendly means that they have to dance with someone, because that just greatly reduces the potential for developing friendships. If the prevailing attitude of (being friendly == must dance) would just go away, I think milongas would be more warm and social.

I dance with beginners, because I want to give back to the community, even though I don't usually derive the kind of enjoyment I want the most from dancing with them. And I hate that whenever I'm at a follower-heavy milonga, I have to endure stares from bad (for some definition of bad) dancers whenever I'm sitting out a tanda.

 

[Be Present]

I think that as long as people are happy with where they are, and what they're capable of doing, then it is not wrong. I could hardly care less if a couple is embarking on a career in tango escenario or just shuffling around the pista; if they aren't disturbing anyone and maintaining the flow of the dancefloor, then it's all good for me.

That said, I am a very strong proponent of the maxim that no one is obligated to dance with anyone.

I dislike the fact that many dancers think that being friendly means that they have to dance with someone, because that just greatly reduces the potential for developing friendships. If the prevailing attitude of (being friendly == must dance) would just go away, I think milongas would be more warm and social.

I dance with beginners, because I want to give back to the community, even though I don't usually derive the kind of enjoyment I want the most from dancing with them. And I hate that whenever I'm at a follower-heavy milonga, I have to endure stares from bad (for some definition of bad) dancers whenever I'm sitting out a tanda.

Really good points. I like hearing your perspective. I appreciate that you give back by dancing with beginners!

I hate it when I see followers just sitting. But i definitely understand where you are coming from.

I am having a milonga in my town next month. I have an idea if anyone wants to comment.

I am thinking of having one or two tandas be ladies choice.

Thoughts??

 

[pianistamediano]

Really good points. I like hearing your perspective. I appreciate that you give back by dancing with beginners!

I hate it when I see followers just sitting. But i definitely understand where you are coming from.

I am having a milonga in my town next month. I have an idea if anyone wants to comment.

I am thinking of having one or two tandas be ladies choice.

Thoughts??

Why not? I might only be speaking for myself, but it would be nice to be invited for once instead of having to invite.

Ideally, the milonga wouldn't have too few dancers, because it's kind of pointless to have a ladies' choice tanda then. If the milonga is very follow/lady-heavy, then there's already a problem that can't really be fixed with ladies' choice tandas. I foresee a mad rush for the best leaders in that case. A better solution in that scenario might be to have a friendship tanda or something, where everyone is free (and encouraged) to invite anyone verbally or otherwise for a song, and then change partners every song.

 

[Naddrin Kentlar]

I dance with beginners, because I want to give back to the community, even though I don't usually derive the kind of enjoyment I want the most from dancing with them. And I hate that whenever I'm at a follower-heavy milonga, I have to endure stares from bad (for some definition of bad) dancers whenever I'm sitting out a tanda.

I've been reflecting on this as well recently. I also like to dance every tanda. Primary focus being to provide a pleasant experience. Sometimes I dance Pugliese, or complex music with beginners, as being tired or in a low mood, I don't feel that I can provide a decent experience to a good follower.

If I were self serving I would only dance with followers that I like, on music that I like.
I like to believe I'm a good person, and since tango brought in happiness in my life, I want to give back to the community. - "the feel good about yourself" reasoning

However after some imagination exercises, there might be a more cynical reasoning behind it: I want to have good experience dancing in locations that suit me with a large number of varied follows ---> To increase the chances for that to happen, there needs to be more offers where to dance tango, and more people dancing tango, so there is choice and competition. ---> For the previous step to happen there needs to be a bigger client base to make the activity economically viable for more providers ---> To increase the client base the only thing that I can do with a relative low effort, is to provide a pleasant experience to as many people as possible. Considering my personal issues with social interactions, the only way to achieve this is through dancing.

 

[opendoor]

So you're claiming that..

I've already explained all of this in so many comments. You can keep your dreams, I don't want to shatter them.

 

[opendoor]

Oh, really?

Before it was assigned stylistically or was named after the barrios.