opendoor
Forum Master
I recently looked at the entry requirements in Blackpool and noticed that there are no vocabulary restrictions in the new teacher-student category.
What Is Tango Doing Right/Wrong: Recruiting and Retaining
- Thread starter JournalInTime
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It depends where you are. There is a social side (been there), but people usually looking towards some standard qualification and, maybe, competition. We avoided the competitive side, perhaps too old, but we did have some great social times. Then AT found us...
opendoor
Forum Master
Exactly! Competition is the DNA of ballroom dancing. Social dances in the ballroom world are secondary inventions. I would go so far as to say that the idea of competition led to the separation into ballroom and social dancing.
The wedge was driven into our then-undivided community by Camille de Rhynal in 1907. He organized the Tango Tournament in Nice, which later incorporated other dances and evolved into the World Championships. Only the Tango Tournament in Nice still was open to all styles. There, Argentine tango clashed with French tango and English tango. American tango had not yet been invented, its a younger build. In the following years, there was a bitter struggle that led to the extinction of the French tango. The TA dancers dived into the bohemian subculture of European cities (at the same time, in Buenos Aires, tango died a natural death. It was later revived back from Europe by the Guardia Nueva). All what remained in Europe was the English version of the tango, which is now called the International Standard style. In its early years, the English tango still was classified as a Latin dance. Concerning my country: In 1911, dance clubs were founded in Berlin with the sole purpose of competing against each other. The statutes of these clubs were reviewed by the Imperial Society of Dance Teachers (Great Britain). They did not organize social dances, only exercise programs and competitions.
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No, that's a myth. At best, we can say it varies locally--some places have a big social scene and no competitors, while others have only competitors and no meaningful social scene. Age trends play a factor, too--in the USA, Ballroom was the colloquial dance style when Boomers were young, and has been almost entirely supplanted in that role by Club Latin today.
But even without that age divide, the two groups just don't cross over very much. If you step into a competition-first studio, you're going to walk away thinking that competition is king. If you step into a social-first studio, you'll think that competitors are some rare and exotic breed. Neither is fully true. The most we can say is that competitors are the ones who spend the most money and therefore partly subsidize the rest of the industry, so it is rare to find a studio that doesn't support any competition training at all. But there are vastly more social Ballroomers out there than competitors. Most of those never take lessons, though, so you won't see them unless you seek out a social dance.
I would argue that this analysis hinges on a few assumptions that should not be held as axiomatic.
All dances evolve over time. Ballroom is no different in that respect. It is true that the competitive Ballroom style has diverged from the original social styles, as a result of the differing goals. You could say that this evolution renders the style "stripped of culture" if you wanted to, and defend that argument without much trouble.
But that objection is no different than in any other dance that has experienced a stylistic evolution. Every culture has traditionalists that frown on change and say that it "ruins the culture." Ballroom merits no special praise or condemnation in this regard. AT, with its diverging social / performance / mundial styles, is in pretty much the same position--the only significant difference is that competitive Ballroom has had a longer continuous history than the Mundial, and thus has had more time to independently develop.
(On a personal note, I would even further argue with such traditionalists. Culture, like dance, evolves. When we preserve the "authentic style" of a dance, we are preserving a mummified version of culture that no longer exists. That's still valuable! But it is not inherently more valuable than allowing a dance form and a social culture to evolve together. By analogy: museums are amazing and important and beautiful, but they are not inherently more important and beautiful than current artists producing new work and challenging our assumptions. They are simply more carefully curated, with the benefit of time and hindsight.)
So I would challenge the implied belief that a dance evolving entails "stripping it of culture." Rather the opposite--styles change in order to better suit the culture in which they exist. Competitive Ballroom, again, does not stand out here one way or the other.
Lastly, about the objection to flashiness. Take a look at any conversation in the Ballroom forum that touches on competitive styling. The prevailing attitude you will see, everywhere, is disdain for pointless flashiness. We even have an idiomatic name for it: flash and trash. No, competitive Ballroom culture, by and large, prizes "purity of movement" just as much as any other culture of dancers. And the judges are frequently the most conservative of the lot in this regard, which puts brakes on the most exuberantly-innovate types.
opendoor
Forum Master
This may be true today. Just as AT now offers world championships, the ballroom world now also offers social dancing.
Certainly not. If that were true, then the social Ballroom crowd would skew younger than the competitive one. The reality is the exact opposite. Social Ballroom has always been around, for over a century at this point--it is just quieter and less-marketed than the competitive scene. Which should come as no surprise to anyone.
ETA: to tie this back to the original point of the thread. One thing we can learn from observing the Ballroom scene is that the competitive side does a VASTLY better job with recruitment than the social one, as evidenced by the comparatively youthful skew of competition. Retention less so, I would say. But it could be instructive to examine what the competitive scene is doing that works. Is it as simple (and arguably undesirable) as marketing the activity to parents, so that kids start young whether they like it or not? Is it the TV shows, which tacitly push the competitive style and condition folks to see that as the norm? In the USA it could also be the efforts of university clubs, which use competition as an artificial construct to drive kids to lessons but then do much more social activity than competitive (it's cheaper and they're broke).
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My wife's just arranged to loan me out as a leader to any solo follower in a workshop she can't attend
opendoor
Forum Master
Lets agree on "..varies locally.." So I will only speak for my area. In the early 1970s, Gerd Hädrich was my ballroom teacher. He had won many competitions and had a strong international network. Together with Alex Moore, he developed the World Dance Program. This gave the previously purely competitive business a foothold in social dancing. In other words, I was there when ballroom became social. The World Dance Program was a true blessing and continues to ensure the popularity of social ballroom dancing in my society. But I repeat myself, this is a late development. Social dancing is not part of the original DNA of ballroom (read my post above).
The attachment shows an excerpt from a poster advertising a dance sport competition in Berlin 1913. The dance categories at the time were one-step (the precursor to foxtrot), Boston (the precursor to slow waltz), and tango.
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On the contrary. Not only is that illogical (which came first: dance or competition?), but social 'ballroom' dances have been around a long time. Documenting the steps and setting a syllabus gave a basis for competing. My parents and grandparents danced ballroom socially without competition, but competition, or more precisely 'winning', now appears to have become paramount.
But the argument is whether competition could help recruit and retain AT dancers. I guess the answer is 'some', but detached from (siphoned off?) the social world. I'd say 'no' (thinking of competitors who've dropped that to become medical researchers, and some known tango authors no longer in that scene). But I do remember seeing posters in European (non-UK) towns and villages for AT music or dance events. Nowadays you have to search FB.
opendoor
Forum Master
So did my grandparents, but not within the framework of organized dance schools. There always was a gray area of teachers who gave dance lessons in bars and ballrooms without any affiliation with the organizations.
I posted about this on previous pages. Now it's more about the historical development, brought up by Tangoing's post.
Miradamiranda
Well-Known Member
Good for your community if that’s the case where you are! That’s definitely not the case everywhere. In my US - based home town it’s ALWAYS possible to go to workshops and classes without a partner. In my German hometown NEVER possible. Except if it’s a women’s styling specific class. In fact there’s a workshop I’d really like to do next weekend with a guest instructor couple but nope, not possible to register alone. I only get to town a couple of days earlier so I can’t even ask around. Also, all my regular partners already have wives or their usual workshop partners. Since I’m. It there full time, it doesn’t work.
Re recruitment, if classes had emphasis on ‘no partner needed, just show up’, I bet those classes could REALLY tap into the demographic of recently single.
I’m sure for a guy, they’d be matched up immediately, but not gals.
So I guess I've been misunderstanding your point. If you are claiming that competition underpins the DNA of dance schools, then I would agree completely. Competition has much more money in it than social dance, and dance schools are a business. Most of them likely could not survive economically without supporting competitive culture.
What I am saying, and @Brummbaer got across much better, is that the dance school is not the entire universe of Ballroom culture--it is merely one of the most visible appendages. Most dance schools will market and promote competition for business reasons, but if you make your interests firmly clear, there is *always* a back door into the social dance speakeasy. And the folks there mostly have little or no connection to any school.
It is much tougher to find your way into social Ballroom than competitive, without an existing personal connection to someone in the scene. It has fewer public faces and spends a lot less on marketing itself. Which is why the dabblers and outsiders here don't know that it even exists.
Miradamiranda
Well-Known Member
I just created a poll about this. It’s mostly in view of recruitment. But also money making for schools. And the ability to keep improving.
opendoor
Forum Master
The word "ballroom" exists in a broad and a narrow version, just like the word "social". However, in many countries, the concept of "ballroom" has become synonymous with the organized business. And I think this also holds true for DF. Would I otherwise (as a tango dancer) would apologize for posting in the ballroom (sub)forums? For me, argentine tango essentially is a ballroom dance (broad sense). We just have styles, thats all.
Miradamiranda
Well-Known Member
Btw the ONLY times I’ve had the opportunity in Europe to take workshops were when guys outright asked ME.
I befriended a woman at some casual milongas, she’s also not full time in town. Her level is not very high. Sweet good looking lady, looks much younger than her age. She asked me ‘what’s your secret, why are you dancing all the time?’ And that nobody was asking her up. I proceeded to explain about mirada and cabeceo and demonstrated the power a woman has in this culture to obtain dances without anyone losing face. She tried it on a few guys and it worked. She got dances. Next time I saw her, she was complaining that she found it was useful to get first dances, but that she also knew she didn’t have the level to give these guys a really good dance, so they might ignore her next time she tried. She is married to a non dancer. How can she improve without a partner? I couldn’t answer, knowing our local community doesn’t accept solo followers in class. All I could say was that I’d gladly meet at a practica and I can practice leading. But the practicas are more like casual milongas, so I’d likely be dancing a lot more as a follower.
I befriended a woman at some casual milongas, she’s also not full time in town. Her level is not very high. Sweet good looking lady, looks much younger than her age. She asked me ‘what’s your secret, why are you dancing all the time?’ And that nobody was asking her up. I proceeded to explain about mirada and cabeceo and demonstrated the power a woman has in this culture to obtain dances without anyone losing face. She tried it on a few guys and it worked. She got dances. Next time I saw her, she was complaining that she found it was useful to get first dances, but that she also knew she didn’t have the level to give these guys a really good dance, so they might ignore her next time she tried. She is married to a non dancer. How can she improve without a partner? I couldn’t answer, knowing our local community doesn’t accept solo followers in class. All I could say was that I’d gladly meet at a practica and I can practice leading. But the practicas are more like casual milongas, so I’d likely be dancing a lot more as a follower.