What Is Tango Doing Right/Wrong: Recruiting and Retaining

[JournalInTime]

I find this point useful, as advertising constantly exposes us to comparisons and claims of personell optimization in our society. Such sentences can appeal to young people. It's better to compete on the dance floor than on the street.

I'll preface my additional thoughts by reiterating that (1) I am not a competitive person, and (2) I don't believe that dance competitions add anything to tango culture.

That said, my original post (here) was about what a local studio is doing to grow tango recruitment, not about my values or tango culture. In that context, I believe that competition is a valuable tool. Attaching the chance to win prizes to a product is effective advertising, and the same principle works for activities. For many people, investing in costly lessons and shoes, attending expensive workshops and festivals, and paying an endless string of door charges at prácticas and milongas is worthwhile only if there's at least a chance to get back not a subjective, hard-to-quantify sense of self-improvement, but an objective medal, trophy, or even cash prize, with glossy photos and your name in lights.

There are downsides to this strategy, though. Most obvious is dancers bringing movements that belong on a stage into social dance at the expense of pure social dancers' comfort and safety, although that's a risk that event organizers can reduce by offering sufficient space and that social dancers can reduce with skill (those who don't compete shouldn't rest on their laurels and not improve). More sinister is bringing an "each tanda is a competition to dance with the most desirable partners" attitude that is neither natural nor necessary, and that is destructive to conviviality and, especially, collegiality – and thus to tango culture.

The point about not competing in the streets is an interesting one. I'm going to have to think about it. I'm aware that there's evidence that dance can "get kids off the streets," but the relevant research has been on community-center lessons and mostly street-dance styles keeping kids in underserved communities away from criminality, particularly gangs.

My experience is that tango, even (especially) the showiest and most competitive kind, doesn't appeal to "kids" and has a monetary buy-in that would exclude most people in circumstances that would put them on "the streets." Certainly, the studio owner proposing to bring in new dancers with promises of quick improvement and a shot at victory isn't charging less for lessons or slots in the competition! The people he seems to be attracting mostly have the money and free time for gym bodies, studio rentals, and fancy wardrobes, and if anything are no longer competing for popularity at the bottle-service club or country club. But I acknowledge that could be a side effect of his place of business being in a gentrified area full of, well, gyms, boutiques, bars, and restaurants.

We don't have some underprivileged area full of poor Spanish-speaking immigrants looking for activities associated with a Spanish-language culture to avoid joining Latin street gangs, like in some local version of Take the Lead . . . that just doesn't exist here. The kids you'd want to get off the street are interested in hip-hop styles.

 

[lucia_l]

Such sentences can appeal to young people. It's better to compete on the dance floor than on the street.

I'm an old person; so is my husband. We like competitions.

There are lots of funs things about competitions even apart from the actual "competition" aspect. But it is definitely the case that engaging in competition focuses us and motivates us to improve a number of important things. It also motivates focus. We compete ballroom- but in terms of motivation, I don't think that's unique. The thing is: competition doesn't only motivate the young.

 

[JournalInTime]

We compete ballroom- but in terms of motivation, I don't think that's unique.

What gives many AT dancers pause is the mythology their dance is built around: AT's world is a "third place" – the milonga – that exists at least as much for socializing as for dancing. Traditionally, the dance qua dance is passed from older to younger dancers informally, and as it's purely improvisational, part of the process of assuming one's place in that world is developing steps and a style different from everybody else's. Standards (in any sense of the word) beyond the social codes rub these AT fans the wrong way, and they look down on formal teaching and see competition as a declaration of war! For them, AT is a culture that happens to have a dance included in it. Bring in competition and there will be arguments with these people.

The thing is: competition doesn't only motivate the young.

Indeed! And it cuts both ways.

My total indifference to competition has nothing to do with age. I wasn't competitive at age 15, I still wasn't competitive at age 30, nor at age 45, and with 60 approaching, I have yet to feel the itch. It isn't in my being. I've been called a "natural communist," and while I reject that label, I am someone who puts collaboration, compromise, community, collegiality, and conviviality ahead of all other things in life. Thus, the "third place" model with people socializing, generously sharing their dance knowledge and the floor, and generally being one big, happy family isn't just appealing to me but also a major part of why I picked AT over some other dance. Competition has overtones of hierarchy and 1%-ism that turn me off, but I recognize that's just me.

I hasten to add that I'm not one of the purists. I value formal teaching and think it's a better system than informal mentorship. I'm really in a third camp – "academic tangueros" – separate from "social tangueros" and "competitive or 'ballroomized' tangueros." It's just that outside the classroom, I lean more social than competitive.

 

[opendoor]

..engaging in competition..

I didn't really had any ready-made competitions in mind, but rather a spontaneous competitiveness. I wasn't competitive at age 15, and I still wasn't competitive at age 30. But when I started tango in my late 40s, after a long break from dancing, I suddenly became competitive on the social dance floor. I wanted to be one of the best around, both in terms of stylistic appearance and in terms of the preferences of followers.

 

[fiesta0618]

I'll preface my additional thoughts by reiterating that (1) I am not a competitive person, and (2) I don't believe that dance competitions add anything to tango culture.

Take it from a Ballroomer that sees both sides: the presence of a competitive scene is good for the social one, because it siphons off some of the folks who cannot help themselves from behaving competitively. Adversarial attitudes make the social scene worse. I.e., competition adds to Tango culture by sequestering some negatives.

Although, if the two cultures try to remain integrated, then you have inflamed the competitiveness but not shielded everyone else from it, which is an even worse outcome...

 

[opendoor]

..don't believe that dance competitions add anything to tango culture..

I don't believe either. The context of the thread at that point was recruiting new dancers. I was arguing for expressing competitiveness through dance, rather than car races, bicep circumference, fights, or tennis tournaments.

 

[lucia_l]

My total indifference to competition has nothing to do with age.

That's sort of my point. It's not an issue of old young.

That said: I think one of the reasons competition is attractive in ballroom is precisely that it gives the old something to do! This is especially true for women. There are many more older women who want to dance. They are less likely to be asked at social events particularly if they don't already danced well. While they can ask others to dance, they still have a tendency to end up being "wall flowers". Being a wall flower is not enjoyable. The pro-am competitive sphere gives them the opportunity to dance regular, at a higher level and be able to learn.

So the reality is that in ballroom and country, competitors tend to be older, not younger. The fact that competition is expensive also means it tends to be older and wealthier. Nevertheless, older people are attracted to competition.

I hasten to add that I'm not one of the purists. I value formal teaching and think it's a better system than informal mentorship. I'm really in a third camp – "academic tangueros" – separate from "social tangueros" and "competitive or 'ballroomized' tangueros." It's just that outside the classroom, I lean more social than competitive.

Even non-competitive people do benefit from formal lessons. That's true in almost anything. Voice lessons, guitar lessons, piano lessons and.... dance lessons. You don't need to compete to benefit from formal lessons. In dance, formal lessons definitely benefit those who would not find social partners who want to volunteer to teach them. That's many people, but particular the older ones.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Being ambitious in the sense of wanting to be one of the best dancers around doesn’t have to be about having a competitive nature, but simply an artistic strive for perfection and not settling for the mediocrity one sees around. And maybe others who strive to become better inspire you to also keep working hard.
I’m ‘good enough’ to not sit around like a wall flower, but I’d like to become better because I find the challenge a worthwhile pursuit. It gives satisfaction much more than winning a competition.

 

[opendoor]

..The pro-am competitive sphere gives them the opportunity to dance regular, at a higher level and..

But that only applies in America; it practically doesn't exist on my continent. Am-Am is here the backbone of the ballroom world. There's a Teacher-Student category recently introduced in Blackpool, but it's having a hard time establishing itself.

 

[JournalInTime]

Being ambitious in the sense of wanting to be one of the best dancers around doesn’t have to be about having a competitive nature, but simply an artistic strive for perfection and not settling for the mediocrity one sees around. And maybe others who strive to become better inspire you to also keep working hard.
I’m ‘good enough’ to not sit around like a wall flower, but I’d like to become better because I find the challenge a worthwhile pursuit. It gives satisfaction much more than winning a competition.

Well said.

I have zero competitiveness in me.

I also have a sense of artistic perfection that others comment upon regularly, which colors my writing (how I earn a living), cocktail-making (my Other Hobby), cooking, and several other things. Of course it's a big part of my tango. I study, practice, drill, and read about tango, and listen to the music and watch videos of the dance in all my spare moments. If it were an academic subject, I'd want to earn a PhD in it . . . which isn't the same as wanting to be published in a prestigious journal or win an award (like a Nobel) for it.

There are people who can only work toward perfection with the encouragement of an external reward, like winning something, but there are plenty of us who don't need that. For me, the internal reward of self-improvement is more than enough. Where it gets weird is when hyper-competitive people see that self-improvement and try to compete with it, believing I'm pursuing it just to show them up. Which simply isn't the case . . . I rarely to never compare myself to anyone but myself in the past!

 

[JournalInTime]

That said: I think one of the reasons competition is attractive in ballroom is precisely that it gives the old something to do! This is especially true for women. There are many more older women who want to dance. They are less likely to be asked at social events particularly if they don't already danced well. While they can ask others to dance, they still have a tendency to end up being "wall flowers". Being a wall flower is not enjoyable. The pro-am competitive sphere gives them the opportunity to dance regular, at a higher level and be able to learn.

Thank you for this perspective. I hadn't even considered it. Where I come from – geographically, culturally, and philosophically – the typical sequence is (1) find partner, (2) learn dance, (3) dance with partner. "Being asked" is of course a thing for the atypical who never had partners and for those who've lost partners (to loss of interest, moving away, relationship collapse, ill health, whatever), but it isn't something germane to my experience as a partnered man who leads, and who either arrives with a partner or can invite people using the rather macho codes of AT. Which doesn't invalidate it! I'm glad to have learned something.

Even non-competitive people do benefit from formal lessons. That's true in almost anything. Voice lessons, guitar lessons, piano lessons and.... dance lessons. You don't need to compete to benefit from formal lessons. In dance, formal lessons definitely benefit those who would not find social partners who want to volunteer to teach them. That's many people, but particular the older ones.

Yeah, as I said in other posts to this thread, that's me. I'm non-competitive in the extreme and also an artistic perfectionist who could be described as an "academic dancer." I cannot imagine avoiding lessons, even if my goals external to those lessons are 100% social and 0% competitive.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Where I come from – geographically, culturally, and philosophically – the typical sequence is (1) find partner, (2) learn dance, (3) dance with partner. "Being asked" is of course a thing for the atypical

Just because one doesn’t have a partner or have a partner willing to dance shouldn’t mean these mature women shouldn’t be able to dance.

My advice is to work really hard at becoming good or learn to lead. In some places you can’t take classes if you don’t have a partner, which is stupid. I’d never have learned had I not had the option of drop in classes without partner. It’s also money not going into the teachers’ pockets.

 

[TTanguero]

I rarely to never compare myself to anyone but myself in the past!

I think that's for me the key defining factor. I relate to everything you wrote, but in everything I care about, this is my only competition metric: me versus past me.

 

[opendoor]

..Where I come from – geographically, culturally, and philosophically – the typical sequence is (1) find partner, (2) learn dance, (3) dance with partner...

In the city where I grew up, and this applies more or less to all parts of West Germany, the order is the other way around. This has to do with the fact that Ballroom dancing still has a strong hold in society. Therefore, the typical order is different:

(1) Go to dance school at 16
(2) Find a life partner.
.....((and in my case):
(5) Stop dancing.
(6) Continue dancing after divorce.

My ex-wife has also started dancing again. She followed a similar path to me, first Argentine tango, then Lindy Hop. She actually would have loved to continue with Ballroom. But that wasn't possible, because in my area, Ballroom dancing only works with a dedicated dance partner. And it was almost impossible to find one. That's quite different in the tango and swing scenes. Here, it's common for single women to go to social dance events, even at an advanced age, lucia .

(Off topic: The good thing about a sad story: It's not uncommon for my ex-wife and me to dance socially together again.)

 

[tangoing]

I’m actually extremely competitive in life, but tango competitions rub me the wrong way since it’s so monotone with its style + i’ve heard how corrupt/rigged the mundial is.
Maybe i’ll try it one day though.