Mr. Moustachio
Active Member
Who were they trying to exclude?
Why some women are not asked to dance
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JournalInTime
Forum Master
The same question to different organizers generated different answers. The most common answers, though, were, roughly in order:
- "People who don't spend lots of money here on events, shoes, drinks, lessons, and our annual festival."
- "People who haven't 'paid their dues' in the tango community" (a.k.a. "New people I don't know").
- "People who aren't attractive, well dressed, and wealthy-looking" (a.k.a. "People whose mere presence adds ambiance").
- "People who don't dance at this arbitrarily high level" (typically meaning "has done the studio's highest-level lessons" but sometimes meaning "is a recognized teacher or performer").
What about eye contact and smile. That should be the rule.
Yes, there are people who gaze at you as they actually rather want to kill you. I smile even larger, to double check if it's about murder or not. Some still would not smile. Serious business
How is wit Milongas in Moscow? Are they on?
If yes, I'll have a nervous break down
JournalInTime
Forum Master
To amplify on my feelings, so it's clear that the list I just gave is NOT how I feel:
I think tango should be inclusive of those who just want to show up, dressed cleanly but casually, and take advantage of the big, good-quality dance surface and professionally curated music. I see no need to prop up a vision of lads in new jackets, ties, and hats, and ladies in new dresses and heels, dancing a narrow, by-the-book style of tango taught at that one place. If someone wants to wear dance sneakers and set foxtrot steps to tango, does it even matter to me if they're not cutting me off?
I think tango should be inclusive of those who just want to show up, dressed cleanly but casually, and take advantage of the big, good-quality dance surface and professionally curated music. I see no need to prop up a vision of lads in new jackets, ties, and hats, and ladies in new dresses and heels, dancing a narrow, by-the-book style of tango taught at that one place. If someone wants to wear dance sneakers and set foxtrot steps to tango, does it even matter to me if they're not cutting me off?
My friend from St Petersburg is regularly posting milonga pics.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
No tandas, no mirada/cabeceo, for me that is the setting of a practica. So this is not rocket science, every organizer can test it with zero effort or is already doing it. The market regulates it
But I doubt whether much more stressing dances like salsa can be the model.
And I don't think, however, that waiting women become happier when there is a shortage of men.
Yes, why shouldn't women also be able to verbally invite, in case that men do? They will be able to cope with a "no", just like men.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
Pretty much. I have zero empathy for people who believe the world of tango should be "different" for men and women, that we need different rules for each. I'm 100% behind a "we're all humans, for better or for worse" approach to the whole thing. From time to time we get these "deep" analyses of tango – or of any dance – as a surrogate mating ritual, or as it pertains to gender. My own stance is these are only "deep" in the sense of "deeply flawed" . . . I don't think they hold water in the least. They smell like people trying to warm over the sexism of another era long after its "Use By" date.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
You're right, things like that happen. But while men and women can perform the same tasks, some easier or more difficult, they are obviously different. And even if they would be "only" different shaped by culture, that cannot be changed in large parts for the older generation.
So I don't prevent anyone from inviting or leading or following in tango. It's not a reason why some women are not asked to dance ... by me.
And at the same time I dance gendered, I'm only interested in leading women. Such preferences can evolve and change. I have a good friend who is now also learning to lead, and I have no doubt that she will at some point be able to lead better than me. If she prefers to dance double-role, then we can stay friends, but will not dance together. Nowadays there are much more ladies who really prefer to follow.
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WhiskeyPapa
Well-Known Member
Going full strong since last summer....
How do you think I came down with COVID?
I would say 60-70% of the people dancing have recovered. Here are two still shots of a performance last Friday:
No need for a nervous breakdown! It will all come back to you too!
I remember last Spring thinking of milongas as a byegone era that will never return. But it did...
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This reminds me of a milonga I attended when I was still fairly new. All night I felt eyes staring at me! It wasn't until the taxi home that I realised that those intimidating glares were meant to be invitations!
That's down to a poor DJ. Even where there are no tandas the music should still be played in "sets". Every nightclub and wedding DJ understands how to work a floor so I don't see how a tango DJ can't manage. There are 30minutes or so of one "mood" followed by the next. In tango it would be like an hour of tango, followed by 30 minutes of milonga, back to laid back slow to moderate tangos, then Vals, more energetic or modern tangos, then a bit of fun stuff ending with a final set of tango and the last song.
A dance event (not a practice/practica) is not chaotic and incohesive. IMO a practica should be "tangos greatest hits" unless there are requests for milonga or vals perhaps to tie in with a class series. Neo-longas and non-tango milongas should also follow sets and moods and not be "my ipod set to shuffle" (that would be a very strange and peculiar set of music).
JournalInTime
Forum Master
Exactly!
A dance DJ is a dance DJ is a dance DJ. If you want to call yourself a dance DJ, learn the fundamentals of the métier in general before you even think about specializing. Weddings and office parties are a great place to start. Then, if one particular genre interests you, by all means delve into its musicology and its social and performance traditions.
But if you can't hack reading a crowd, managing its energy, and a establishing a flow in general . . . you can't magically do so for tango in particular merely because you dance it yourself. That's rubbish thinking. It's like claiming that because you like rum, you can mix rum cocktails well enough to get paid as a bartender even though you've never bothered to learn the vocation of bartending, or like asserting that since you read a lot, people should pay you to write novels even though you've never studied or even practiced writing.
I think it's bad amateur tango DJs that have led a lot of tanguer@s to hesitate to accept certain orquestas, eras, and tanda structures, and to explore alternatives to the strict tanda structure. Around here, you always get 4T-c-4T-c-3V-c-4T-c-4T-c-3M-c- . . . Nobody dares deviate from that, and nobody much takes a gamble on music from lesser-known orquestas, especially those of the 1950s and 1960s.
Ugh that's a terrible and exhausting (for those who dance a lot) structure. Always 4 tangos to a tanda? Only 3 vals. There'd be riots here! Some people love vals and would want at least 2 tandas in a row not a miserly 2 tandas in a night. They wouldn't get to dance with their second favourite vals partner. I'm lucky that I have the luxury of sitting out a tanda or two but some of the best leaders would feel obliged to dance the two tango tandas and then might want to dance the vals or milonga but after all the obligatory tangos they'd be hard pressed to manage without a little sit-down
We also have a very determined cohort who like to dance the cortinas so if a DJ really wants to ape golden era Buenos Aires they'd better not choose Elvis, Swing, Salsa or popular line dances for the cortina!
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JournalInTime
Forum Master
Right here.
My partner and I mainly like vals. Yes, there are plenty of tangos and a few milongas we like, but vals is our first love. In fact, it would be fair to say, "We mainly study and practice tango vals, which we adapt to tango and milonga," though that wouldn't be entirely accurate because the majority of our lessons have been to tango, not tango vals.
A typical milonga here lasts long enough to get three, even four vals tandas in a night. But we don't have the desire to show up at 9 p.m. and stay until 3 a.m. What ends up happening is that we show up too late for the first vals tanda and dance the second. If we're really full of energy, we'll stay to the end up of the third vals tanda so we get two vals tandas.
But I totally wish there were "all vals, all the time" milongas, and realizing that's unrealistic, at least a structure more like 3T-c-3V-c-3T-c-3M-c-. . .
Well, clearing the floor is a good idea if you want to see what's going on and find partners, so I'm not 100% on board with dancing the cortinas.