Why some women are not asked to dance

[Tango Newbie]

The men's restroom is an important tactical position for me at a milonga with my SO. So if I go there during the Cortina to "wash my hands" and come back during the first song, then to see if my partner is dancing or not and react accordingly.

Yes, I use that excuse to get up out of my seat, and to give us both the space and opportunity to dance with others since we are definitely giving others the impression we're off-limits (when we're not). I made a restroom break and came out during that song and my GF was out on the dance floor, so I cabeceo'd a very attractive follower who's quite good, dresses provocatively, we're sized right, and danced the same tanda, and ended with a little flair, something my GF saw that seemed to make her a little envious.

What seems to be unfolding for me, is now that I've mastered a warm close embrace, have a great frame (thanks to my years in the military), and can execute enough steps to make Tango fun, followers are eager to accept an invitation to dance with me, so my GF is stepping up our game as a couple so we look best with each other versus with others.

 

[Brummbaer]

My GF always makes herself presentable to set herself apart, and is one of the 'peacocks' in the room; 5'7", 135 lbs (fit), naturally busty, milky skin, blonde hair done-up with the ends curled and flipped, wears classy jewelry and fashionable outfits, has a sexy shoes and appearance, etc.

Depends on the society you move in, but that can be a deterrent as well as an enticement. Of course, that may be considered the norm at your milongas. I like the supercar or race horse analogy; yes, possibly desirable, but then I consider the running costs, insurance, training, etc and just not practical. Of course, they may be a perfectly nice, interesting, person and I've missed an opportunity. It's just a dance! I'm there to dance amidst the socialising; do I need that networking? We all have our hidden prejudices.

I could also say the same for some very good followers; not in my league. The maestra who doesn't get invited because they're too good and the [unjustified?] feeling that you can't lead them well enough with sufficient vocabulary for a good dance. Imposter syndrome? Those who initially intimidated you? But, as @Rabbit noted:
Just because people enjoy the gancho/boleo complex doesn't mean they don't also enjoy walking as well or vice versa. And, in that context, you change the vocabulary used for the style of music.

One thing I do notice when my GF accepts a 'mercy tanda' from guys like Carlos and a few other, older, more seasoned leaders (who aren't her favorites either) is when I make eye contact with her on the dance floor, unbeknownst to others, she'll open her eyes a little wider, or roll them a tiny bit, as if to signal how the tanda is going.

Not a good strategy. People notice (yes, even failed cabeceo sometimes).

and she's only interested in dancing with me the most, then leaders x, y, and z

If you restrict the field, don't expect as many dances. And there may be well-founded justification for excluding certain leaders. Certainly those leaders who thought they were good may no longer invite once a follower becomes a lot better - now out of their league.

It's about relationships: those minutes in the tanda with different partners, but it's my SO with whom I'm going home.

 

[JournalInTime]

I rarely approach the female half of an obvious couple unless I've been encouraged to do so by the guy. I even notice if two people walk into the room together. To my way of thinking, it shows that I respect the fact that they ARE a couple.

I'm hardly a conservative person. I'm not big on tradition, couples "owning" each other, or even codes of tango unrelated to maintaining the line of dance. Yet I do everything you wrote, because people who attend the milonga together often have plans, and it isn't my place to mess with those plans.

For instance, I went out the other evening with an out-of-town tanguera who isn't my life partner (my life partner wasn't available). We had this crazy idea to dance particular orquestas in specific ways to see if we could do it. Had someone horned in, that would've thrown our plans. It wasn't important that we weren't a "real life" couple; it was important that people let us alone.

Also, it's possible that your GF has gotten too good for some guys to think that she would enjoy dancing with them, especially if you two look really good dancing together.

Intimidation is a real thing in tango. There are followers I don't invite because they dance exclusively with leaders who teach, perform, and tour. I cannot give them a tanda that good.

Your point about "look really good dancing together" is huge, too . . . two "5 out of 10" dancers can look like a couple of "8 out of 10" dancers if they're extremely familiar with each other, because they have a lot of secret codes and error-correction going on, not to mention great comfort with one another. That, too, can intimidate.

Another thing I always notice about the women is what movements they seem to enjoy while dancing. If those things aren't in my preferred vocabulary, they most likely won't get an ask from me.

For me it's less about movements and more about style, particularly embrace. I embrace close and low, and put the point of contact closer to the belly than the chest. I keep my sacrum straight down under my cranium, and want my partner to do the same. I lead everything through torso deflection, dissociation; I refuse to "drive" the dance with big steps around my partner, or to add "oomph" with the arms. So, if I see a dancer who responds to that, I'll invite them; if I see one who insists on a high embrace, outthrust rear-end, exaggerated leader energy, etc., I'll pass forever.

And, yeah, first refusal is last refusal for me.

At least that evening, probably that month, maybe that season, and conceivably forever, depending on how the refusal felt.

 

[JournalInTime]

My GF was good before I came into the picture, and she didn't need lessons. But, who doesn't, really?

And no, none of these 'old pros' take any classes and haven't done so for years, so maybe the should!

All dancers need lessons.

I do weekly coaching to deal with things like 5° offsets and quarter-second delays I dislike. Regular coaching doesn't so much "fix" that stuff on the spot as keep me conscious of it so I can correct for it and, after months or years, internalize the correction. My regular partners definitely notice.

As soon as someone says, "I've taken enough lessons," they've admitted that they're falling back on being "good enough" . . . but they can't expect people who continue to work to keep dancing with them. Sounds like your GF has few "good enough" guys who expect her to keep dancing with them.

 

[JournalInTime]

If we want to sit together and talk, we'll put an empty chair in between us to make it clear to feel free to ask the TD. Early on, I could tell leaders wanted to ask the TD, but were worried. The empty chair between us thing put them at ease.

The "empty chair" trick is awesome, by the way! It lets you seem "apart" enough to rotate through partners while staying close enough to fake out creeps with a quick lean across the table.

Roll your eyes at your own risk! Save comments on things like that for the ride home.

Yes!

When you invite or accept to dance with someone, you owe them your best unless they're actively hurting you or being creepy. That doesn't strictly mean your best dancing. That means your best "being a decent human" performance. I have partners I like as people but who are . . . mediocre dancers. I give them the same smile during and thanks after the tanda that I give to my favorites who dance well. The extra I give those favorites is more tandas that are more musical and more complex in ways that less-good dancers cannot even see.

 

[JournalInTime]

We consider our 'social dancing' to be 'date night' on those occasions when we're attending a milonga.

Just be careful not to make it look too exclusive. A lovely dancer I know decided to get into a couple with a guy who thinks he's "all that" in tango. She used to dance with everyone. Now she confines her dancing to just this one leader. And now, nobody talks to her any more . . .

 

[JournalInTime]

Depends on the society you move in, but that can be a deterrent as well as an enticement. Of course, that may be considered the norm at your milongas. I like the supercar or race horse analogy; yes, possibly desirable, but then I consider the running costs, insurance, training, etc and just not practical. Of course, they may be a perfectly nice, interesting, person and I've missed an opportunity. It's just a dance! I'm there to dance amidst the socialising; do I need that networking? We all have our hidden prejudices.

I have a looks-related prejudice for sure:

• Young, slim, fit, pretty, well-dressed, flexible, etc.? Well, here's a princess. The self-appointed princes will be all over her, as will be the creeps. She won't sit down often. She doesn't need me.
• Middle-aged or older dancer who has been in the milonga for decades? Now I'm interested . . . this person isn't trading on looks, but actually knows how to dance.

Is that really true? No. Prejudices rarely are. Is there a grain of truth? Yes. Prejudices aren't always unfounded.

 

[Tango Newbie]

Not a good strategy. People notice (yes, even failed cabeceo sometimes).

Yes, I feel the same, that she 'may' have even the slightest way of communicating with me when she passes in front of me, but you're right someone might take note. On the other hand, in her defense she's very subtle with the eye contact with me so to not make it noticeable to others. But yes, if someone were sitting next to me where I'm sitting against a wall were to see a glace too, it could have consequences.

If you restrict the field, don't expect as many dances. And there may be well-founded justification for excluding certain leaders. Certainly those leaders who thought they were good may no longer invite once a follower becomes a lot better - now out of their league.

It's about relationships: those minutes in the tanda with different partners, but it's my SO with whom I'm going home.

My GF only secretly mentions 'who' she's interested in dancing with and those she's not. As I mentioned, the ones she's not interested in are typically leaders who have B.O., bad breath, mushy embrace, are too sweaty, and don't lead very well, even if they're 'regulars' in the community.
And our relationship is rock-solid so we're not thinking about whether we're going home with each other or not, nor are there things that would label her as a 'hands-off' follower.

 

[Tango Newbie]

All dancers need lessons.

Yes, I agree. There seems to be those 'seasoned vets' who continue to take the int-adv class regularly, and those who I've never seen in a class. My GF has admitted that taking classes with me has given her the opportunity to correct a few things and hone her skills, especially since Covid put a damper on dancing (up until last year). Being a 'newbie' I see a lot of the seasoned vets (leaders) who seem to dance well enough with other seasoned followers who I've never seen take a class, yet notice things like their arm swing etc., that makes me think they need a refresher.

Sounds like your GF has few "good enough" guys who expect her to keep dancing with them.

Yes, that's so very true. Sure, there are leaders who dance pretty well and don't need to keep taking lessons because they dance quite a bit, but they're the exception, and not the rule. Then there are those who have great footwork and musicality, but do things like swing their arms and do other things that are discouraged in classes.
There is a couple who have been dancing for many years and they're both in our int-adv class every week like clockwork. The husband is one of my GF's favorite leaders and dances with him at the follow-on practalonga almost every time, and I'll dance with the wife. The class has paid dividends for him, whereas the wife is a little on the frail side and isn't so easy to lead, so I have to dance a little differently with her than I do with other followers.

 

[Tango Newbie]

Just be careful not to make it look too exclusive.

Yes, I agree. We consider it a 'date night' in principle between the two of us, with the expectation that we're there to dance with others about a quarter of the time.
While we are a 'couple' we're social with everyone in the community, whether they're couples or singles, so neither of us has a 'hands-off' sign on our back. What seems to work best is when we're at the point where one of us is dancing with someone else after our first 2 tandas, it frees the other to dance with others. Early on many times someone will mention to either of us that they'd like to dance with her or me, so after we dance those couple tandas, both of us start lining up others to dance with. If one of those isn't available, or neither of us is cabeceo'd or asked, we'll continue dancing. Conversely, we're flexible with each one another so we don't come off as untouchable to others.

 

[Brummbaer]

My GF only secretly mentions 'who' she's interested in dancing with and those she's not.

So she gets the tandas she wants? Not too many; not too few?

the ones she's not interested in are typically leaders who have B.O., bad breath, mushy embrace, are too sweaty, and don't lead very well, even if they're 'regulars' in the community.

Understandable. Is this a severe problem in your community? Ought to be some comparable thread on here (I haven't looked) on Why some men's dance invitations are rejected. Let's ignore the failure to respond and look at the how and when if during a tanda.

 

[Tango Newbie]

Middle-aged or older dancer who has been in the milonga for decades? Now I'm interested . . . this person isn't trading on looks, but actually knows how to dance.

I tend to enjoy the youthful dancers of any age, but at almost every milonga or practalonga I'll make time for those middle-aged and older followers because it's the right thing to do and has a positive affect in many ways.

First, I pay my respects to those followers who are known in the community, and usually have a very enjoyable dance with them because those followers appreciate dancing with me. Secondly, they are very forgiving when I make a mistake. Thirdly, other followers may see this and are not only open to me, it also allows others to dance with my GF.

 

[Tango Newbie]

So she gets the tandas she wants? Not too many; not too few?

Not always. She gets tandas from those she may not be interested in, but does so because she's being cordial, and some from others she is interested in, so it's a mixed bag. My GF has a few leaders who have never asked her, and she'd accept if they did.

Is this a severe problem in your community? Ought to be some comparable thread on here (I haven't looked) on Why some men's dance invitations are rejected. Let's ignore the failure to respond and look at the how and when if during a tanda.

Hygiene doesn't seem to be a severe problem, it's only a couple of leaders who have 'issues' with bad breath, B.O., etc. and my GF is sensitive to those things.
While she isn't eager to dance with those leaders, my GF will still dance with them for a couple reasons; they're old acquaintances, and doesn't want to come off as a tango snob keeping others from asking her to dance.

 

[TTanguero]

bad breath, B.O., etc. and my GF is sensitive to those things.
While she isn't eager to dance with those leaders, my GF will still dance with them

Not me: I have zero tolerance for that. Fresh sweat doesn't smell, only older sweat, which means either that they didn't shower or are wearing unwashed clothes. No excuse in either case.

 

[Tango Newbie]

Not me: I have zero tolerance for that. Fresh sweat doesn't smell, only older sweat, which means either that they didn't shower or are wearing unwashed clothes. No excuse in either case.

Yes, so true, and my GF has little tolerance, so it only takes one time and she loses interest in dancing in the future with most of those guys and accepts an invite on a case-by-case basis. She thinks one guy's bad breath is from halitosis, but said a lot of guys have stinky breath.

On one occasion I'm sure a leader definitely wore unwashed clothes, and another didn't stink, she just didn't want his sweat on her nice white dress, and told him he should bring extra shirts. Me, on the other hand, don't have any problem dancing with women who are a little sweaty, and I find it normal, especially since I can get a little sweaty underneath my clothes. I try to wear clothes that keep me cooler and avoid certain fabrics.

Nonetheless, I always shower, shampoo, and condition my short (military) hair style beforehand, shave well (clean shaven with zero facial hair), brush my teeth and gargle, don't eat spicey foods or garlic beforehand, and have freshly cleaned clothes. I'll even bring an extra shirt, or take a break and hit the men's room to towel off any sweat on my neck and face, or step outside to cool down. Plus, I bring mints and neither of us drink any alcohol before or during a milonga / practalonga (water only).

In the spirit of the topic, my GF is getting more selective on who she accepts an invitation from, so if she suspects she'll get an invite from one of those stinky-breath, smelly leaders, we'll dance to avoid any hurt feelings. She's also aware that if she's seen turning guys down, it might affect her chances with others.