Why some women are not asked to dance

[LadyLeader]

I don't think the ability to communicate with someone on their level for a few minutes is difficult. The question is whether we enjoy their company, what they're saying, and how they're saying it.

Exactly!

This autumn I plan to explore how to truly enjoy my dances with *tango children*. The same with the followers far skilled than me.

There are certain things I naturally enjoy but I believe that the curiosity, exploring will bring in new things during the coming weeks. If I earlier have enjoyed things when I came across them the plan is to cultivate new sources or activate things already existing there. So to speak I will mentally leave the hunting & gathering thinking for transit to cultivation as happened in the society!

(cultivation stands for the work within me; the work to create more sources within me to enjoy dances; like the farmer working the fields for guaranteed food)

 

[opendoor]

..abandoned tango salon ..Now I enjoy ..dancing with beautiful women, especially the young sexy ones...

I know that there are two groups of dancers. The first who dance very closely and enjoy the physical contact. The others dance in Salón hold, but are successful in dating.

 

[Rabbit]

This autumn I plan to explore how to truly enjoy my dances with *tango children*. The same with the followers far skilled than me.

I don't think in terms of levels. I respect my dance partners as equals, and I expect the same from them.

I also believe in cultivation but for me it's external rather than internal (I can't force myself to enjoy things I don't like, but I can improve myself, help others improve, or contribute to the scene to improve it general)

 

[Naddrin Kentlar]

For the last few months I've tried to pay extra attention to how I chose my partners. My findings so far:
- I don't seem to have a whitelist and a blacklist, but rather a desirability list where all the followers exist.
- interactions determine how the followers move on that list

Things that raise a follower ranking on the list:
- have never danced before, or in a long time. Longer the time, higher the priority.
- light embrace, highly responsive follower
- notice the follower is dancing with obvious newbies and trying their best to enjoy it giving the circumstances
- follower actively seeks to dance with me (by positioning, mirada)
- I sense I can provide a pleasant experience

Things that lower a follower desirability for me:
- follower to not be focused on their partner while dancing
- follower appears bored
- follower appears tired
- follower appears condescending towards people (others/me)
- follower is an event organizer/teacher (I can't always evaluate if they want to actually dance with me, or they're just being polite)
- skimpy outfit follower will attract attention to us as a couple, and I don't particularly enjoy attention.
- we've danced a lot recently
- heavy embrace

When there is music that I particularly enjoy, I look for people on there top of the list with which I've danced before, based on the embrace they usually prefer. If I feel like dancing in open I'll seek for someone that prefers open and so on.

There's also a couple of anomalies where, even if they match the criteria to be on top of the list, I can't seem to get myself to invite them (decent dancer, kind person, pleasant embrace). I'm still trying to determine the root cause

So I usually dance with most of the followers that want to dance with me depending on the size of the event.
Small event - eventually I get to dance with all the followers that want to dance with me
Larger multi day event - I usually dance with roughly 90% of the followers that want to dance with me based on priority list. Ones at the top of the list multiple tandas, ones at the bottom of the list, one tanda or less.

 

[itwillhappen]

I also believe in cultivation but for me it's external rather than internal (I can't force myself to enjoy things I don't like, but I can improve myself, help others improve, or contribute to the scene to improve it general)

These are typical overarching interests of a community builder. The immediate interests of individual dancers can certainly stand in the way of this.

 

[Tangogal]

I admit I mostly skimmed the responses but. It seems to me that you are giving off “exclusive” vibes.

First and last tanda - great! Nice couple out for a night of dancing and clearly not interested in any side action.

75% of all tandas - this couple are on date night and really only there to dance with each other. They dance with others on sufferance. They even go so far as making eye contact with each other when they dance with others!

It’s totally fine to only want to dance together but if you’re really interested in dancing with others you need to cut your couple tandas to about 4 max. Focus only on the person you’re dancing with (no eye contact or glances off the floor). Sit in a way that lets others know you’re dancing for example a chair or table between you. No hand holding or arms entwined! Only light conversation.

 

[LadyLeader]

This autumn I plan to explore how to truly enjoy my dances with *tango children*. The same with the followers far skilled than me.

I don't think in terms of levels.

There are quite clear level systems active in tango communities. The most visible is about skills and the other one is about hierarchies. It is good to bee aware of them and even if I try to keep me out of them there are situations when I must adapt to them.

When I mentioned two kinds of followers I want to meet during coming months it was exclusively about their differences. I want to learn how I need to develop my existing lead, content to meet those differences.

 

[Tangogal]

I have resting misery face. I look inconsolably desolate when not actively grinning.

Several years ago when I was a milonga princess (think 30ish but looks 21ish) and I cared more about volume than quality of dances. I experimented with every point in the room and every facial expression. What I learned:
1. Most leaders ask or don’t ask and it has nothing to do with smiling or not.
2. Most leaders will not approach for a dance if you are having a conversation (be rude! Keep conversation light and brief)
3. Many leaders are clueless about body language and assume you are a couple if you are sitting with a man (they don’t see that someone old enough to be your grandfather is not a likely romantic interest)
4. Light is your friend! Dark corners are no good for finding dance partners
5. Move! Go to the bar or the toilet or to say hello to a friend. The movement will catch people’s eye and they can mark where you are sitting for later. Also a good opportunity to show how well you walk in heels
6. There is a hierarchy among leaders and they will not ask if they think a better/more important/more senior leader is looking your way

 

[ArbeeNYC]

6. There is a hierarchy among leaders and they will not ask if they think a better/more important/more senior leader is looking your way

Hmm. Not sure about this one. Personally, the hierarchy doesn't interest me much or determine who I want to dance with.

 

[Tango Distance]

Its not necessarily bad leading. If one partner looks unhappy or bored, they're just dancing with a mismatched partner for them, either for social reasons that have nothing to do with the actual dance or because they prefer a mediocre dance to sitting around.

That's a catch-22 though. I would give them credit for dancing with the beginners even if they are not enjoying it that much

I have resting misery face. I look inconsolably desolate when not actively grinning.

This has been a good conversation. I do ask unhappy looking followers who are sitting, my comments were aimed at those dancing. Anyway, I realize I was rather binary on the unhappy looking follower = don't ask thing. I'll move unhappy looking dancer out of the automatic veto category. Thanks Rabbit and Tangogal for the enlightenment.

 

[opendoor]

6. There is a hierarchy among leaders and they will not ask if they think..

Hierarchy was a very important point for me in my active fighting time. But I find that the males in the lower ranks also bring movement to the hierarchy when they invade the grounds of the top dogs. (At least in my case.)

 

[SierraAlpha]

6. There is a hierarchy among leaders and they will not ask if they think a better/more important/more senior leader is looking your way

Fascinating. I never observed anything of the kind. Which is not to say this doesn't happen - I simply stay clear of all the tango drama and hierarchies in the spirit of "ignorance is bliss".

I had the impression that vast majority of leaders think they are God's gift to womankind and so would not know where they fit on the hierarchy. But maybe I'm just projecting ;-)

 

[opendoor]

..had the impression that vast majority of leaders think they are God's gift to womankind..

I totally agree with you, the majority of leaders come because of the women. The music is not important to this group, but the closeness and non-binding physical contact with the female sex is.
It's different for me. I flirt a lot, find and found all my girlfriends in our scene. But as soon as the music starts, I don't care who I'm holding. Then I have the big mirror in view. I want to know how a musical phrase is interpreted by the field of leaders. That was my incentive in tango. Pretty women were just the bonus.

 

[Brummbaer]

I totally agree with you, the majority of leaders come because of the women. The music is not important to this group, but the closeness and non-binding physical contact with the female sex is.

A, fortunately now gone, British 'gutter press' newspaper used to have the slogan: All human life is there. So it is with milongas. Some AT book I read once started with some milonguero descrbing his reason for dancing with certain women was: To have my head between a nice pair... That, or similar, is certainly the case for a small group attending; others are there to dance, but as an anecdote attributed to Einstein describing relativity: When you sit with a nice girl for two hours you think it’s only a minute, but when you sit on a hot stove for a minute you think it’s two hours. That’s relativity. So it may be with a tanda.

Long ago when I started dancing there were lots of young, fit, attractive women. What wasn't to like? We have pair dancing, usually with the opposite gender. We also invent rules of behaviour with the opposite gender to play this game.

Nowadays, and for many decades, I'm going home afterwards with the same woman. I'm there to dance and to socialise. I certainly don't think I'm God's gift to tangueras, but I see some groups who certainly do, and sometimes that old time lounge lizard reappears to find the attractive 'exciting' younger followers.

But, all human life is there... And women (or men) are invited, or not, for many reasons. Maybe the more salient positive points are to maximise one's chances of being invited from the preferred dance group (tribe?) rather than the myriad of reasons why a person is not invited. Identifying that group might be a good start. A follower's perspective is always helpful.

 

[itwillhappen]

Hmm. Not sure about this one. Personally, the hierarchy doesn't interest me much or determine who I want to dance with.

Hierarchies are not the only way to determine and secure one's social status. Especially since hierarchies have to be created from above and accepted from below, which is relatively difficult in the tango community.

So it could be that you are simply satisfied with your status, that it corresponds to your self-image. At least that's how I feel myself.
And for women who aren't invited, that usually won't be the case.