Why some women are not asked to dance

[LadyLeader]

If a dancer has survived 10-20 years in tango s/he has for sure the skills at a *good enough* level for the home community. First year beginner can have a lot to learn. It is not always fun to be a beginner but if you choose to test the advices you get, you will find the ones fitting your personality.

Listen to your teachers/peers, test and choose!

In tango you can always find unfair issues but if a dancer chooses to focus on personal growth, on the routines witch increase the chances to get a tanda, the skill and the number of tandas will grow.

 

[TTanguero]

And how is it when the leader is doing it/not doing it right?

I know leaders several years into tango who still find cabeceo difficult/awkward. For them, 'not doing it right' is mostly 'not daring to do it with followers they don't know.' But I've also seen leaders fail to do a clear nod, leaving both uncertain whether an invitation has been issued and accepted.

I'd say the most common form of 'getting it wrong,' though, is doing it at such close range that it's not really a cabeceo at all. That is, everyone can see the invitation, and whether it's accepted or declined, and it puts as much pressure on the recipient as a verbal invitation or the dreaded handeceo.

 

[TangoYfutbol]

@ArbeeNYC And how is it when the leader is doing it/not doing it right? Thanks!

Arbeen, this is a very good point and that leads to an insightful conclusion. If the leader is not doing it "right" (which I mean not effectively or with the intended outcome), then he would sit. Eventually, he will have to resort to the "handeceo". In general, those who do not do "cabeceo" or complain about it are the people who have problems doing it well. It is fine. Not everyone has been socially and culturally conditioned to do a cabeceo and should not preclude them from dancing. Going back to the original intent, this is just one more reason that increases the probability of sitting for followers.

 

[Rabbit]

Well part of the problem is the way the title of this thread is framed - it shouldn't be about women passively waiting to be asked or to "receive a cabeceo", the invitation should be about both dancers showing interest in each other.

 

[dncergrl2]

Eye contact is fascinating and complex. Some messages are unmistakable. Eye contact happens instantly by both parties, accompanied by subtle changes in facial muscles (eyes opening wider, raised eyebrows or a faint smile). The eye contact continues until the communication feels complete (let’s get out of here, did you hear that?, I find you interesting, are you ok?, do you need help?, well done, calm down kid, want to dance?). I find huge individual differences in ability to use eye contact. I had a dance teacher once tell me that only 10% of the people he knows use eye contact that fluently or intently. Personally I find it unrelated to how well I know the person. Some call it chemistry. Other people go through the motions. The eyes technically meet, but they are “empty”, expressing no clear message- no change in expression or muscles around the eyes- no dilation of pupils.. With some people, eye contact alone is not sufficient- It needs to be accompanied with eyes wider and wider, a change in posture, using gestures or eventually very literal words. Some people, such as people on the autism spectrum, avoid it. Sometimes gaze is not for eye contact but meant to gather information (do I know you?, you talking to me?) before mutual eye contact is established. What I find fascinating is that some people seem to “sense” when someone is looking at them in a crowd. The eyes raise to go bolt straight to that person amongst all others. Or you sense someone behind you is looking at you. I’ve never found a good scientific explanation for that. But I have been both on the receiving and giving end of that mystery and I find it delightful.

 

[Brummbaer]

Well part of the problem is the way the title of this thread is framed - it shouldn't be about women passively waiting to be asked or to "receive a cabeceo", the invitation should be about both dancers showing interest in each other.

Precisely. If you don't determine how dance invitations are being made at the venue, and you're expecting something verbal, but don't observe a 'cabeceo', then you'll think there haven't been invitations. And of course, at least not in BsAs and some other cultures, there's no reason why a woman shouldn't invite a man by whatever tools are in use.

The invitation tools people deploy to invite others for a tanda do, however, mask other issues under the theme of the thread.

 

[opendoor]

..determine how dance invitations are being made at the venue..

When I ventured to Berlin for the first time as a tango newbie (12 milongas in seven days around the turn of the millennium), I wanted to do everything right and only ask by cabeceo. No woman responded to me. I started convulsing my face like crazy. Nothing happened. Then I got up and asked: do you want to dance. Her: yes, Me: why didn't you react to my cabeceo? Her: what again? So, even in tango strongholds you have to find your way around.

 

[LadyLeader]

What I find fascinating is that some people seem to “sense” when someone is looking at them in a crowd.

YES!
I am pretty sure that the best cabeceo users have the skill to send this kind of invitations and read them too!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

@ArbeeNYC And how is it when the leader is doing it/not doing it right? Thanks!

Similar problem, just in a different direction. A follower, ignorant of the cabeceo, may accidentally ignore it (although most women get the hint without too much training). As for leaders, those who do it incorrectly, and there are many of them, sometimes do it from honest ignorance (no one explained to them how it is supposed to work) or from simple laziness, sometimes from convenience, sometimes egotism.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

That is, everyone can see the invitation, and whether it's accepted or declined, and it puts as much pressure on the recipient as a verbal invitation or the dreaded handeceo.

Also puts pressure on the initiator since everyone can see they were turned down. Especially in a small space. I mean, that's life in the big milonga, but it works both ways. There are risks for both parties. Maybe different risks or differently nuanced but risks all the same. It's also easier to decline than to initiate.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Well part of the problem is the way the title of this thread is framed - it shouldn't be about women passively waiting to be asked or to "receive a cabeceo", the invitation should be about both dancers showing interest in each other.

Thank you for drawing attention to the fact that both parties should be proactive. I've mentioned that before in similar contexts. But the cabeceo is not one-side, or shouldn't be.

 

[dncergrl2]

There is a song and dance number in the old stage version of Cabaret called “The Telephone Song”. There are telephones on each table in a dance hall. People call each other to ask them to dance. I did it once in a production. Was super fun. “Sitting all alone like that.. you happened to catch my eye..,”. Apparently this was really done in the old days. Anyone can call anyone. And I mean anyone. Fun times. It’s probably on YouTube somewhere.

 

[Bailango]

First, I did say 'some would argue'. My take on it is that as partners are reduced, so, maybe, are tandas and specific music chosen, until ultimately it tends towards an exclusive performance, or exhibition. You can only do that tanda/dance with that partner. Maybe the figures used even become fixed and routine, and even impractical to lead/follow with anyone else.

I will argue that it has less to do with above and more to do with chemistry. Personally some of the regular partners are those I share good dance chemistry which is often those that will interfere less with musicality. Other regulars are those that are dance friends, good enough dancers but the chemistry will be inconsistent or nonexistent. Generally people know who dances regularly with whom. In a bigger scene that leads to cliques or in group. That includes a subset of those that like dancing figures.

Therefore I like the serendipity of discovering chemistry with new dancers. At every milonga I will try to dance one to three tandas with new people. Most often they are visitors. I don’t feel oblige to dance with regular partners at every milonga. On some nights too many regular partners might to show up.

 

[Bailango]

Part of my reasoning is I feel like there are some ladies where we have developed our repertoire together, so we already dance together well, so I would rather be loyal to them in that sense. It's not something emotional where I'm required to do something through a sense of obligation.

This changes too. It depends on how some people keep developing and evolving, while others stagnate. Sometimes those who dance well with you no longer are able to. Other times dancers who started later catch up and become better dancers than those that at one time developed together.

The longer you stay in the scene more likely the number of people you stared dancing with will dwindle. At least in my case all my regular partners started dancing long after those I started dancing with are no longer around. On a rare occasion someone might show up but skills are lagging due to long absence.

 

[Bailango]

Still don't understand what this means for you or what makes you believe that you are doing it right and the followers are doing it wrong. Nothing pejorative in my question, just trying to figure it out.

It is very easy to tell which followers are doing it right and which are not. Opposite must be true too regarding which leaders do it the right way and who don’t.