A good sylabus for close embrace Tango learning

Lui

Active Member
#83
In my world Skodas are cars made by a branch of the Volkswagen group. My sister drives one. Never seen one on the dance floor though.

I agree, that it will take about several month or even years for followers to develop an “relaxed” leg. On the other hand flowers will learn to receive an average forward sacada in 5 minutes, given they have already a decent walk and ochos and are dancing with a professional dancer. Leaders will take about 1 to 2 lessons to get going. You can learn incredible fast, once everything is explained in details and combined with an throughout training system. The trick is to find such a teacher.

In my opinion learning from video is rather hard, as many aspects, like the lead, can’t be experienced nor questioned. While a sacada is easy to learn one on one, its very difficult to learn just from video. For me all scadas are low keeping the followers foot on the floor, but that might be a question of semantics.

There are more options, than just three. Inviting some teacher/Milonguero/skilled person to that place for example, but yes there will be costs involved most likely. As the old saying goes; “The only thing free in life is death”. Frequently, I encounter students struggling to unlearn something they have made up by them self, inspired by the internet. It’s just such a waste of energy and the ladies are often at the painful end.
 
#84
Being such a smart cookie as you are, I'm convinced you wouldn't make a false correction once you have noticed you are wrong. On the other hand who would do that, anyway. :roll:

I have a great respect for your dedication towards tango, but a strong disdain for the exploit of your partner.

Learning separated from any community is brave but as helpful as sitting in a rubber boat on your village pond and training for High Sea Yachting. The excuse of the far distance to the Sea and the high price for the Yacht is as understandable as it is pitiable. It will not, however, redeem the forlornness of that action. Remember your sacada thread. The scada is a rather simple move, often taught about the 8th or 10th class, you don’t need to study 2 years, given some kind of qualified person is around in real life.

No matter how much you read and experiment, Tango can only be learned on a - at least decently - crowded dance floor. Even regular courses can only prepare you that much. Everything else is floundering about the non-swimmer pool. If you spend daily time on training something without correction, you will become very good a being a bad dancer. BTW, this is such a common phenomenon, it's almost a stereotype at the Milongas: The older gentlemen with little experience, but big confidence, a complete Youtube collection and a preference for teaching – a horror for all female attendees - and for the organizer as well. You might save yourself such a future.

A flight Mexcio City to Buenos Aires is about 350 € / 500 $, that will be money well spend.
A voice of reason, finally. Thank you.
 
#85
As for options, traveling to Buenos Aires is one.
Organizing a trip to Buenos Aires for a group of local tango community members might be another.
Inviting teachers, organizing workshops is what lots of people who live in tango deserts and are eager to learn and create the community, do.
It is impossible to learn tango using mostly videos and internet discussion board.
If there is no way to learn tango in your area, take up salsa or swing instead.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#86
In my opinion learning from video is rather hard, as many aspects, like the lead, can’t be experienced nor questioned. While a sacada is easy to learn one on one, its very difficult to learn just from video.
I agree.. I think I may have led that sacada successfully once or twice, and I KNOW I've been led in it, and I STILL can't figure it out from watching the video Mario posted!
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#87
Are you talking about a low sacada or a high sacada? The low ones are fairly easy for the follower (as they can be mostly an illusion). If you are talking about the high sacada, then I am more in agreement with you.
By a "high sacada" are you referring to a castigada or leg wrap rather than just a step that displaces the follower by stepping into her spot and creating the illusion by moving her body?
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#88
By a "high sacada" are you referring to a castigada or leg wrap rather than just a step that displaces the follower by stepping into her spot and creating the illusion by moving her body?
With the high sacada there is a true displacement and light contact that typically occurs above the follower's knee. The low sacada doesn't require contact, but if it does occur, it's below the knee. The follower can do a quick leg wrap embellishment, but I wouldn't call it a castigada (although I might be wrong on that).

BTW, I didn't make up the high vs low sacada thing. One of my teachers (an Argentine who now lives in Boston) explained it to me. Of course I've also talked to a few people who said that only one (or the other type) was the only "true" sacada.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#89
My favorite is an "in line" or "linear" sacada in an apilado embrace. The man literally steps straight into the woman, between her legs. Contact occurs between the man's outer thigh against the woman's inner thigh.
VERY important to have a good connection and be moving well together to pull it off.
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#90
I think that this may also be a function of what your vision of tango is. If it is CE on a very crowded floor, you might be right. However, one of the hallmarks of "modern" tango is the level of technical demand it places on the follow, see for example the Chicho Y Juana video recently linked into the forum.

This is in fact a portion of why I dance 'nuevo' if floor conditions allow - it is much more enjoyable for my partner than only doing simple walks - which she does enjoy. But as a ballet dancer, she also enjoys a challenge to her technique.
Hmm - to be honest i don't find that modern tango requires more technical skill - i can do a decent imitation of open embrace nuevo with a follower who has danced for maybe 1 or 2 years, while i find that dancing inventive and musical CE on one squarefoot requires a degree of connection, awareness and active following and precision that only very few followers have. A open embrace inline boleo in the line of dance is easy, a close embrace in line boleo between my legs is difficult.
Gssh
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#91
Hmm - to be honest i don't find that modern tango requires more technical skill - i can do a decent imitation of open embrace nuevo with a follower who has danced for maybe 1 or 2 years, while i find that dancing inventive and musical CE on one squarefoot requires a degree of connection, awareness and active following and precision that only very few followers have. A open embrace inline boleo in the line of dance is easy, a close embrace in line boleo between my legs is difficult.
Gssh
For some strange reason, I've never had any desire to lead that move.

;-)
 
#92
My favorite is an "in line" or "linear" sacada in an apilado embrace. The man literally steps straight into the woman, between her legs. Contact occurs between the man's outer thigh against the woman's inner thigh.
VERY important to have a good connection and be moving well together to pull it off.
Is this while walking cross footed and is the woman being pivoted to her left at the second that the sacada is to occur?:confused:
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#93
Is this while walking cross footed and is the woman being pivoted to her left at the second that the sacada is to occur?:confused:
You don't need to be in cross system for this sacada. If you step in (do the sacada) with your right foot (sacadaing her right foot/leg), the pivot will be clockwise.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#94
OK.
You are walking parallel.
I usually do this when I am stepping forward on my right foot.
She will be stepping back on her left.
Usually nobody asks about some of this stuff. I will try to find the class notes for this one.
As I don't quite remember it, setting it up is a bit tricky, and I want to make sure I get it right. There is, however, practically zero rotation.
To paraphrase Gsssh...
a close embrace in line boleo between her legs is difficult
Wanna make sure I get it right!
(So should we all because if you think about where you are stepping...)
 
#95
Hmm - to be honest i don't find that modern tango requires more technical skill - i can do a decent imitation of open embrace nuevo with a follower who has danced for maybe 1 or 2 years
I hardly know how to respond to this except to say no. Dynamic colgadas? No. Volcadas NOT treated as a step pattern but with every motion, including interrupting or reversing the leg sweep, lead? No. Dancing musically, creatively and inventively in an open connection on a single floor tile? No. Etc.

while i find that dancing inventive and musical CE on one squarefoot requires a degree of connection, awareness and active following and precision that only very few followers have. A open embrace inline boleo in the line of dance is easy, a close embrace in line boleo between my legs is difficult.
To me, modern/nuevo is _not_ about big or flashy moves. To me, it is about an extreme subtlety of communication, using a wide variety of connections, and permitting a huge variety of movements. It would be impossible to be a decent modern tango dancer and find anything remotely difficult about dancing in CE on a single floor tile since the CE connection, and the ability to dance CE well, is a small subset of what I consider modern/nuevo tango. BTW, that's why I have invested as many hours as I have taking CE privates with someone I consider one of the best CE teachers residing in the US.
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
#96
You guys have to be kidding me; there is nothing difficult about any of this save for being in a close embrace. All that is required from both partners is a basic knowledge of middle, center, balance. Setting up the sacada dentro isn't difficult either if the lead has learned the basics of the walk (outside/inside).
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#98
My favorite is an "in line" or "linear" sacada in an apilado embrace. The man literally steps straight into the woman, between her legs. Contact occurs between the man's outer thigh against the woman's inner thigh.
VERY important to have a good connection and be moving well together to pull it off.
Love these. *swoon*

*ahem* Back on topic, everyone, nothing to see here.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#99
You guys have to be kidding me; there is nothing difficult about any of this save for being in a close embrace. All that is required from both partners is a basic knowledge of middle, center, balance. Setting up the sacada dentro isn't difficult either if the lead has learned the basics of the walk (outside/inside).
I think the issue is being able to suss out what is being done by watching it go by quickly from a weird angle on a video. I'm thinking Mario could get this move quite quickly if it was actually demonstrated to him live by an instructor.

Describing it in words complicates it... like so many things in tango that if you could just SHOW someone what you mean, it would be so much easier. But that doesn't mean that watching a video of a demo from an angle that hides one partner is going to instruct you at all.
 

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