opendoor
Forum Master
Who attacks? Predator or Prey?
Cabeceo and Other "Rules"
- Thread starter Gssh
- Start date
itwillhappen
Forum Master
That can be of course. Fortunately, with well-groomed hunting behavior in milongas, you hardly come into conflict with the law. And of course women are supposed to hunt there too.
We recently went off together as a cheerful hunting party, three experienced tangueros in one car. It was quite entertaining to come together at the table from time to time and discuss the situation.
One friend went in position to cabeceo the lady in black at the other end of the room, but it didn't work. I wasn't sure, at least she was talking to a good friend of mine. The other friend just wanted to go over. But by then she got up and went to the bar, we thought to pay, it was already late. But "by chance" she took her drink and sat down at the next table...
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WhiskeyPapa
Well-Known Member
@itwillhappen
…and? … I don’t think the story ends there…
she was well-groomed… good to know… was the glass her weapon? Or a hairpin? Or her glance… which man fell victim to her daring, well groomed attack?
was the coffee espresso or americano?
…and? … I don’t think the story ends there…
she was well-groomed… good to know… was the glass her weapon? Or a hairpin? Or her glance… which man fell victim to her daring, well groomed attack?
was the coffee espresso or americano?
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Today's codigos are yesterday's codigos. Many of them still apply. They are behavioral to a large extent but also cover floorcraft.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
No, that was the time for an exciting ending of the story. The lady in black was simply sitting in an awkward corner. When it got emptier, she just sat down over to us. A good idea.
That was exactly what happened to me two months before, especially since a strong in-group there has little interest in endangering their status by accepting new dancers. Except that a nice tanguera sat next to me and took care for a pleasant milonga. So basically I wasn't a big hunter this time, but a little boy who came back with two older brothers to show how strong I am. But so are the hidden codigos!
I don't think there are statistics to back your claim. I have never heard of a female dance professional banned from a scene (except for that one woman who stole all the money and ran off), arrested for possession of CSA imagery, accused of rape or sexual assault or even of domestic violence. Nor have I met any women whose behavior was bad enough to make people uncomfortable. I've only heard of organisers needing to have a word with men.In the spirit of equality in the 21st century, lets just point out that men could be as often prey as hunters.
Oh wait wasn't there some altercation between Pablo Veron and a woman in New York years ago?
It's much more informal. "Would you like to dance?" is perfectly acceptable.
tangobro
Active Member
Yes, and various versions of what happened. The basic unadorned framework of the story is a tanguera asked Pablo to dance, he declined. She threw wine on him.
One version of what happened was recounted here:
boycott Pablo Veron
Hello All Some of you have attended the All Night Milonga in New York City this Saturday and some haven’t but I feel compelled to share...
juergenpichler.blogspot.com
opendoor
Forum Master
In Upside Down Pablo demonstrates that it is always he who walks up and asks. And its not asking its rather prompting.
Yes, and various versions of what happened. The basic unadorned framework of the story is a tanguera asked Pablo to dance, he declined. She threw wine on him.
One version of what happened was recounted here:
boycott Pablo Veron
Hello All Some of you have attended the All Night Milonga in New York City this Saturday and some haven’t but I feel compelled to share...
Thank you. Yes, that’s similar to the version I heard and I always felt the organisers reacted badly to the situation.Yes, and various versions of what happened. The basic unadorned framework of the story is a tanguera asked Pablo to dance, he declined. She threw wine on him.
One version of what happened was recounted here:
boycott Pablo Veron
Hello All Some of you have attended the All Night Milonga in New York City this Saturday and some haven’t but I feel compelled to share...
I had previously seen Pablo Veron at a festival in Europe and was not impressed with his behaviour. He mostly drank with his buddies and then danced with the youngest, most scantily clad women. (There was one who looked like a young teenager and appeared to be there with her mother). And this was at a festival where he was working and one of the headline teachers.
So not a lot of respect there, and certainly not one of life's caballeros.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
This is an uncomfortable topic. I have no doubt that when it comes to sexually inappropriate behavior, men drastically predominate. It is also not useful to work off individual counter-examples. I think most women can report something like this, e.g. @jantango:
Sexual misconduct at the milonga
“What we are witnessing at the moment is nothing short of an uprising of women against sexual assault. They are revealing its epidemic frequency in our society and all the ways in which it is…
jantango.wordpress.com
In my opinion, that will not change much with tango, as long as significantly more women want to dance with men than men with women, that shifts the balance of power too much.
I recently asked a good friend if she would like to go to a gender balanced event to share travel and accommodation costs. She's an athlete and travels a lot, there was no question about that. For another event, I'm doing a friend of hers a favor, just like that, without sharing accommodation. Another friend of mine noticed the nice event images and has already asked ...
I can well imagine how something like that can slide into "toxic".
What I mean by "hunting" at a milonga has nothing to do with all that, of course.
I can also "campfire", come and go with a friend, and sometimes dance with other friends.
But for the course of a milonga itself, "hunting" is much better.
I can also well imagine how something like that can slide into "toxic".
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itwillhappen
Forum Master
And Sir Anthony Hopkins saws up and eats young women, I saw it in the cinema!
And it's been happening for centuries, if not millennia. That doesn't make it acceptable, and examples of such behaviour can harm relationships.
Sometimes it's 'open', because that's considered 'normal' in the context; sometimes it's more genteel, hidden, not discussed, or worse, not called out and dealt with
Most probably true as the male hunter aggressor, but don't exclude women, for which there are counter-examples. Suffice to say that attraction is normal, but a relationship, even for a fleeting tanda, requires respect and boundaries. Obviously there may sometimes be [mutual] interest in crossing those boundaries, and either party can go beyond mere 'clumsy', but 'no' means 'no'.
Sometimes it's more fun to assume the "prey" role