Cabeceo and Other "Rules"

[tangobro]

Am I correct on any of this or am I being unreasonable?

Yes and yes. From what I understand the genesis of this 1st dance practice (maybe "rule" is too strong) comes from this scenario - a couple intends to dance with others at the milonga, he dances the 1st dance with her so other leaders can see her dancing & thereby she will be on their radar.

The last dance may be partly to limit something that occurs in come cultures that I call the forever goodbyes, the goodbyes that seem to take forever. If the couple is together, they can help steer each other to the exit.

From what I've heard, there was also a machista component in the thinking of some Bs. As. men who wanted to ensure that another man wouldn't invite his partner "for coffee" after the milonga.

Most of the "rules" in the milonga are local rather than universal. They may be guided or inspired by Bs. As. or they may be honored only in the breech.

 

[Tango Newbie]

The last dance may be partly to limit something that occurs in come cultures that I call the forever goodbyes, the goodbyes that seem to take forever.

That seems to be a common theme in tango; too many "leaders" who dance the last tanda may be expecting 'more' after the milonga, so extending the "goodbye" only "buys" them time.

From what I've heard, there was also a machista component in the thinking of some Bs. As. men who wanted to ensure that another man wouldn't invite his partner "for coffee" after the milonga.

Funny thing about that, my 'experienced' GF has been to BA three times, attended countless miliongas, both here in several states in the US and foreign cities, says she's "never had anything inappropriate" happen to her during her 20+ years of dancing. I'm finding that a little hard to believe, but then again I may be wrong (but that's all in the past so it's water under the bridge). My GF is very fit (does Pilates 4x per week), is attractive and very fashionable, and is an excellent dancer, so I suspect there have been some "leaders" along the way who've tried to invite my GF out for "coffee" after a milonga (or wanted to).
And here I thought tango was "just a dance".

Still, the bottom line for me is, and I explained this to my GF; all I want to do is the 'right thing' so I don't mess up or hurt her, so I told her I'd like to know what her expectations are (of me).

Lastly, I'm finding the use of the cabeceo to be pretty much hit-and-miss, so I don't have any expectations (now) on using it, but feel the unwritten rule of the "first and last" (tanda) needs to be part of my/our routine. We both start off on the right foot, and end on it...together.

 

[Cabbit]

Depends on the definition of (in)appropriate. I never considered a man taking in interest in me as inappropriate. It starts being inappropriate if they refuse to take a hint and back off after i politely express my disinterest.

 

[Tango Newbie]

Depends on the definition of (in)appropriate. I never considered a man taking in interest in me as inappropriate. It starts being inappropriate if they refuse to take a hint and back off after i politely express my disinterest.

I suspect what's "inappropriate" to some, isn't for others. The real question is; how often have men taken an interest in you (and presumably other followers), including my GF? If it's a common occurrence, then I'd have to disagree with the notion that tango is "just a dance".

Truthfully, as I take this journey, I want the "rules" and "etiquette" (codigos) to be clearly understood so I stay within the boundaries of what is acceptable, both from an interpersonal side, and the cultural side.

 

[TTanguero]

The real question is; how often have men taken an interest in you (and presumably other followers), including my GF? If it's a common occurrence, then I'd have to disagree with the notion that tango is "just a dance".

How many men and women have taken an interest in each other at work? At a writing group? At <insert random place where people meet each other here>?

As has been said before, someone who is insecure about their relationship in a tango environment is likely insecure in any environment.

 

[Cabbit]

In this, i dont think statistics would help paint a realistic picture. It is not a tango- specific thing, it is a person-specific thing. Some people attract attention and some dont, and this is not something you turn on or off. So people getting (in)appropriate attention are as likely to get it on a conference, in a cafe, walking their dog... as they are to get it on a milonga.

 

[Tangogal]

I suspect what's "inappropriate" to some, isn't for others. The real question is; how often have men taken an interest in you (and presumably other followers), including my GF? If it's a common occurrence, then I'd have to disagree with the notion that tango is "just a dance".

Truthfully, as I take this journey, I want the "rules" and "etiquette" (codigos) to be clearly understood so I stay within the boundaries of what is acceptable, both from an interpersonal side, and the cultural side.

My answer is often. And while my intention is always just to dance others may be looking for a romantic partner (for a night, duration of a festival or forever). I have been invited for coffee etc many times and I am no supermodel.

“me too” applies to tango just as much as anywhere else. Any cross section of society will include people who act inappropriately. My mother is a survivor of CSA but always makes light of things like knat-grabbing or wolf-whistles as “nothing”. Maybe your GF doesn’t count those kind of things either?

 

[Tango Newbie]

How many men and women have taken an interest in each other at work? At a writing group? At <insert random place where people meet each other here>?

As has been said before, someone who is insecure about their relationship in a tango environment is likely insecure in any environment.

A couple things about that; in both my military and professional careers, where people spend countless hours near and around each other, there still doesn't seem to be much 'relations' going on, especially in light of accusations of harassment that is now prevalent. Are there co-workers who engage in relationships? Of course, but they're the exception, not the rule.

Additionally, people in industry aren't "hugging" each other in a close embrace for long periods of time. So trying to draw comparisons between work-life and tango is not a good one. People in a work environment are not seeking to be up-close-and-personal (and in the personal space) with other coworkers as dancers are with each other.

In the context of the discussion and what tangobro mentioned, according to him it seems to be fairly common among some leaders to be on the lookout to take things to another level with some of the followers after the last tanda, hence a reason couples establish the 'last tanda' rule (to dance with each other to avoid those situations).

 

[Tango Newbie]

My answer is often. And while my intention is always just to dance others may be looking for a romantic partner (for a night, duration of a festival or forever). I have been invited for coffee etc many times and I am no supermodel.

“me too” applies to tango just as much as anywhere else. Any cross section of society will include people who act inappropriately. My mother is a survivor of CSA but always makes light of things like knat-grabbing or wolf-whistles as “nothing”. Maybe your GF doesn’t count those kind of things either?

Your answer was exactly what I expected; lots of leaders are on the prowl (to some degree or another).
Yes, I suspect my (fit and attractive) GF has had lots of invitations for "coffee" afterwards, yet downplays it just like your mom and doesn't count them as inappropriate (for whatever reason). In fact, my GF thinks all leaders think like she does; that they're only in it for the dancing and have no romantic desires for her or other followers whatsoever.

Lots of people won't admit it, but a close embrace with a beautiful woman, who smells good, and can move well is someone most men could quickly become romantically attracted to. It's human nature.

Rules (codigos) and the cabeceo are in place to allow dancers the opportunity to 'screen' who they want to dance with and who they don't. But, they don't seem to be consistently enforced at milongas.

 

[Cabbit]

It is not the closeness or the duration of the contact that sparks interest, but a specific quality of that embrace. A person might look attractive and dance technicaly correctly and rarely or never invite any interest besides a tanda. You can dance all night with an attractive person and feel nothing.

Your logic is good, but you are trying to apply it to an illogical mix. So, it isnt all correct in practice.

 

[Tango Newbie]

So people getting (in)appropriate attention are as likely to get it on a conference, in a cafe, walking their dog... as they are to get it on a milonga.

Huge differences. In tango there are opportunities for up close and personal touching that creates those waves of attraction and desire, whereas in all those other instances they're 'visual' attractions that don't include close contact with the other person, which explains the reason for 'rules' (codigos and cabeceo) and etiquette in tango that are in place to help avoid unwanted advances due to the intimate nature of the dance.

 

[Rabbit]

In tango there are opportunities for up close and personal touching that creates those waves of attraction and desire,

The touch just becomes a socially normal thing eventually.

 

[Tango Newbie]

It is not the closeness or the duration of the contact that sparks interest, but a specific quality of that embrace.

Good points, but to take that a step further, if the quality of the embrace is great and lasts for the entire duration of a tanda (or more) then it's likely 'something' is felt by both dancers to some level or another (or more for one over the other), hence the invitation for "coffee" that seems to happen with more frequency than is openly admitted by a lot of dancers.

From what I'm seeing this seems to be more of a one-sided affair, with the leaders being the inviter (most often), and the followers being the invitee.

 

[Cabbit]

True, but by the time you have a great quality of embrace that you can maintain throughout the whole tanda, such embrace becomes something usual, and not something that people necessarily feel the need to act upon.

From my limited experience, i dont equate dance with personal interest. Ive had several waiters on regular milongas take interest in me just because i smiled at them every time i bought a drink. I was just being polite and in a good mood, no conversation, no contact. On the other hand, a lot of people i dance with for years never felt the need to suggest anything inappropriate. If there is some rule or reason to it, i dont know what it is.

 

[Tango Newbie]

The touch just becomes a socially normal thing eventually.

Yes, I agree and love the dialog and discussions in this forum. As others have said, there are those dancing tango who lack intimacy in their private lives and tango is their means to engage in close physical 'touch' and contact with other people (dancers). This is what makes tango unique, NOT like other activities humans engage in.