Cabeceo and Other "Rules"

[JournalInTime]

I have to say that regardless of whether there's a codigo or not, it's a bit weird to immediately walk up and invite a stranger who showed up with a partner.

Agreed . . . at a milonga.

At a práctica, it depends. When I hosted one, it quickly became apparent that some "couples" weren't, and that as the host, I'd better invite the follower to dance if I wanted her to return. I can't explain how I knew this – it was always evident at the time.

A lot of beginners show up with somebody for moral support but don't really want to dance with that person; some actively require rescuing from a creepy "advanced" dancer who dragged them to the práctica.

 

[JournalInTime]

An interesting discussion. Ive never been to a milonga outside of europe, but all the milongas in europe felt just like home. There is some uniformity. Ive never seen any codigos printed out, the understanding probably being that if you came to a milonga, you know what the 'rules' are. And the rules seemed to be the same in rome and berlin and budapest and amsterdam... It would be strange and educational to see milongas where that is not a given

I've never been to a milonga outside of Canada and the U.S.A., and I feel the same curiosity about milongas in the rest of the world! We have a lot of Europeans on these forums, and their experiences don't sound all that much like my own. Also, I have several East Asian friends, and I like the way they describe Japanese and Korean events, but they're not like Canadian ones.

Even within North America, the biggest cities – Mexico City, NYC, LA, Toronto, Chicago, Montréal, etc. – seem to be their own worlds with little in common with the rest of the region. Montréal is close enough to NYC to be a road trip, yet I find the way people here describe NYC to be more foreign than the way they talk about, say, London.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

All the milongas around here post the códigos on site – most often in the restrooms where people can read them without being too obvious about it.

At one of the local milongas here, we place small cards on each table. These succinctly describe flow on the floor (nice diagrams) on one side and list a few of the codigos on the other side. They're quite good. Some people actually look at them.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

One organizer periodically held events with three-sided assigned seating: women on one long side, men on the other long side, and couples and groups at tables at the far end and on the little stage. She kept the lights up to facilitate the cabeceo. Standing was prohibited (politely); she sold one ticket per seat and then closed registration.

Did it work?

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Even within North America, the biggest cities – Mexico City, NYC, LA, Toronto, Chicago, Montréal, etc. – seem to be their own worlds with little in common with the rest of the region. Montréal is close enough to NYC to be a road trip, yet I find the way people here describe NYC to be more foreign than the way they talk about, say, London.

So, maybe Montréal is the outlier.

 

[JournalInTime]

Did it work?

Not really. As I also said:

And . . . nobody much liked it.

It was a bad fit to our culture here. Being into tango doesn't materially change the fact the people here are montréalais, québécois, and essentially Gallic, not Argentine.

 

[JournalInTime]

So, maybe Montréal is the outlier.

It might well be. It's the biggest francophone (de facto) city-state in North America, and comes fourth after Kinshasa, Paris, and Abidjan. It's "more French than France" in many ways.

 

[Naddrin Kentlar]

The idea with separate sitting does make sense now in an attempt to prevent leaders from "ambushing" followers by accompanying them to their seats and just sitting on the next seat.

On the other hand, based on the only event I attended with this practice I've come to the following technical issues:
- since the followers are bundled together, you have to wait until only one of the followers is looking in your general direction
- assuming that I also wanted to dance with a one of the particular followers looking my way, now you need to check behind you if there isn't another leader that might be the actual target of your follower.
- while the above can be somewhat overcome, if the intended target leader is in front of you then "tough luck"
- spending up to two songs in the tanda to sync up is a terrible waste of music
- eventually I've overcome this by standing in the man's area a and moving around in an attempt to be the only leader in that particular direction
- in the end solution was only partially successful as the first item in the list was still an issue. I hate trying to cabeceo a follower in a bundle. Either no follower looks, and when they decide to look, there are multiple followers looking and I have to look away.

 

[LadyLeader]

The idea with separate sitting does make sense now in an attempt to prevent leaders from "ambushing" followers by accompanying them to their seats and just sitting on the next seat.

On the other hand, based on the only event I attended with this practice I've come to the following technical issues:
- since the followers are bundled together, you have to wait until only one of the followers is looking in your general direction
- assuming that I also wanted to dance with a one of the particular followers looking my way, now you need to check behind you if there isn't another leader that might be the actual target of your follower.
- while the above can be somewhat overcome, if the intended target leader is in front of you then "tough luck"
- spending up to two songs in the tanda to sync up is a terrible waste of music
- eventually I've overcome this by standing in the man's area a and moving around in an attempt to be the only leader in that particular direction
- in the end solution was only partially successful as the first item in the list was still an issue. I hate trying to cabeceo a follower in a bundle. Either no follower looks, and when they decide to look, there are multiple followers looking and I have to look away.

I would add these two, helping me during the traditionally seated weekends.

When we had a cabeceo and a confirmation in place I started to go sideways following the pista edge. If her eyes followed me I approached her but if her eyes stayed I knew she was connected to some other leader.

During the first song when some couples are already on the floor there will always be a momentarily clear sight to a follower on the other side of pista. When we notice the interest we have one or two seconds to wait and when the next clear sight appears we nod! This was actually the most precise option for me!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

eventually I've overcome this by standing in the man's area a and moving around in an attempt to be the only leader in that particular direction

In some crowded places, you more or less have to move around the room to where the followers you want to dance with are sitting before attempting to get their nod. In rooms with odd seating arrangements, followers will sometimes be looking in the completely wrong direction--away rather than toward you. The only recourse you then have is to position yourself in their line of sight. Hardly subtle!

 

[ProgressNotPerfection]

Hardly subtle!

 

[Tango Newbie]

I have to say that regardless of whether there's a codigo or not, it's a bit weird to immediately walk up and invite a stranger who showed up with a partner. They wouldn't even be on my radar for a while.

You nailed it. Thanks for your rational and logical explanation. You're right, even as a beginner I know that what went down was not cool. And yes, I've done my homework and found this "first and last" mentioned in a few very credible sources.

 

[tangobro]

Some codigas are worth keeping but others (like asking the man for permission to dance with his wife) are not.

I don't see this as an Argentine codigo. It's been my experience dancing in the New York City area in various post high school dance scenes that it's considered to be "gentlemanly behavior" to ask a guy with a lady if he minds if she is asked to dance. This is NOT asking his permission to dance with her, but acknowledging that he may be interrupting. If it's ok, the lady is then asked. It's her decision to dance or not. Also it may not be his wife SO or GF, it could be a friend or cousin or whatever, their relationship status can be unknown.

I read on some blog somewhere long ago about a guy new to the tango scene in Bs.As. visiting a milonga with a friend who was known in that milonga. He was surprised at how friendly the men seemed to be. They would look at him sitting with her at the table, nod & smile he would nod & smile back. They would then look toward his friend, she sometimes would nod or smile, then get up to dance with them. I interpreted that as an example of the Argentine codigo of cabeceo being used the way the "gentlemen" in my area were expected to behave.

 

[Tango Newbie]

I don't see this as an Argentine codigo. It's been my experience dancing in the New York City area in various post high school dance scenes that it's considered to be "gentlemanly behavior" to ask a guy with a lady if he minds if she is asked to dance. This is NOT asking his permission to dance with her, but acknowledging that he may be interrupting. If it's ok, the lady is then asked. It's her decision to dance or not. Also it may not be his wife SO or GF, it could be a friend or cousin or whatever, their relationship status can be unknown.

My sentiments exactly. To support your conclusion, tango is not only supposed to be 'refined' (better than the way people conduct themselves in other dance styles), but it's a time-honored tradition where men are supposed to be masculine (and respected by other men), and women are supposed to be feminine and treated as ladies (and respected by men as well).

Which means, at a minimum, a man should get an acknowledgement from another man that he'd like his approval to ask for a dance with the lady he considers his partner. A couple may be sitting-out a tanda (or two) waiting for the right moment, just enjoying the music, or watching other dancers.
This isn't the wild 'club scene' where anything goes, at least that's what I thought, nor is it Tarzan and Jane stuff either.

That said, I also believe it's good practice for a woman to get an acknowledgement from another woman if it's "okay" to dance with their man (BF, spouse, dance partner, etc.).

Etiquette like this is not only good for the community and a 'social grace', but for the individual dancers as well, especially couples and partners (and their relationship with each other).

Chapter 4 Near the Tables - 'The Couple':

Tango Etiquette (los códigos)

Tango for psychological wellbeing. The blog explores dance as a primal part of our humanity, as seen by children dancing naturally. Have we forgotten?

tango-therapist.blogspot.com

"The general rule of thumb is that when you approach any couple you will need to engage both in this agreement."

 

[opendoor]

..it's a time-honored tradition where men are supposed to be masculine (and respected by other men), and women are supposed to be feminine and treated as ladies (and respected by men as well)..

Hi Tango Newbie in San Diego, Yes and No. The tango community is also a part of the world out there. So we can't expect a complete special way. However, I don't see what you're emphasizing as an general ideal worth striving for. It's always there, but not exclusively. There is usually a certain ambiguity, we play with our roles and traditions. What you are now seeking and cherishing actually was once very important to me. When I arrived at tango, I was very insecure, I had had rather bad experiences with women. I was a softy, I came from a completely different direction. In this respect, tango was an important school for me and codigos were an important help.