Discipline and Patience

[pascal]

Of course he still does. He comes to the class after a full afternoon of martial arts. And after the practica he goes to a place where people dance swing.
But in tango he looks like a "fake" (characters created for fun purposes in World of Warcraft that are deliberately doing everything wrong, like a Troll warrior equipping a magic wand). Can't walk, can't hear, can't lead.

 

[JohnEm]

Of course he still does. He comes to the class after a full afternoon of martial arts. And after the practica he goes to a place where people dance swing.

I hope that he still doesn't do all that while trying to learn AT.

Clearly he does - and an afternoon of martial arts (good or bad) cannot
possibly be good preparation for learning tango.

But in tango he looks like a "fake" (characters created for fun purposes in World of Warcraft that are deliberately doing everything wrong, like a Troll warrior equipping a magic wand). Can't walk, can't hear, can't lead.

I'm surprised at you criticising a student so openly.
You may be right but even so.

Having said that and judging from what you said elsewhere:

No need to bury him under tons of DiSarli pieces. That's boring, unattractive, scratchy music whose only plus is that the beat is easy to find. So yes, Nefelis tango in the Harris Alexiou version, or Carribean Blue by Enya, Bachelorette by Bjork, whatever.

Seems to me you are teaching "fake" tango to "fake" music,
no wonder your pupil looks a "fake" too.

 

[pascal]

Guess you missed the point about the "fake" part.
Also in your quotes you forgot the post where I say that I use DiSarli for the group class attended by this pupil.

Now, indirectly maybe, there might something useful in your post; that is, using alternative music instead, may bring better results with this student.

 

[JohnEm]

Guess you missed the point about the "fake" part.
Also in your quotes you forgot the post where I say that I use DiSarli for the group class attended by this pupil.

Don't remember seeing that.
In any case, I'm just taking you at your word.

Now, indirectly maybe, there might something useful in your post; that is, using alternative music instead, may bring better results with this student.

And that would not be the desired effect!
Find him something melodically rhythmic tango.
Even try some Carabelli jazz and get him to swing dance,
with or without a partner, see if he has any idea of rhythm at all.

Some people are hopeless cases, lacking in coordination (it's just
how they are) and in the competitive world that once existed in BsAs,
they would probably never have made the grade to be practice partners.

 

[Dave Bailey]

Personally, I just rely on pig-headed stubborness to get myself through the low patches. I wouldn't dignify it by calling that "discipline"...

As for my students, the ones that progess the most seem to be the ones that work the most. Funny that.

Also, the ones who progress the most are the ones that go off and practice stuff the most. The ones who only do my classes progress far slower. Again, funny that.

And my worst student is, in my judgement, much better now than he was when he started with me.

(And it's amazing to me that many other teachers can't say that - what are they doing? )

 

[Lioness]

I've taken at least one musical instrument all the way through school...it changed between piano, voice, and flute, but there's always been one.

I don't know whethr it's made me more disciplined, but I've certainly learnt that, while, like Peaches, I can get very good grades with little effort, I get even better if I put effort in and dedicate myself to something.

 

[dchester]

Personally, I just rely on pig-headed stubborness to get myself through the low patches. I wouldn't dignify it by calling that "discipline"...

For me, maybe there's a little ego involved, as well as the pig-headedness. If "so and so" could figure this out, then certainly I can as well.

I just think discipline sounds a lot better. Maybe we could call it, more PC.

 

[AndaBien]

Since my childhood I've always been willing, even eager, to learn more and develop skills regarding whatever I was going to spend much time doing; dancing, playing music, professional realm, whatever. I've always thought that being better at something would be more enjoyable and rewarding. But, I know there are many people who spend lots of time doing certain activities and they seem to have little interest in improving. I just wonder why that is. I've known dancers who have danced for many years, know that they are not good dancers, would like to be, but don't make any serious effort to become good dancers.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Personally, I will only persist at an activity if the rewards seem greater than the effort put in. And the reward of tango is pleasure, not challenge.

Agreed

 

[Steve Pastor]

I know there are many people who spend lots of time doing certain activities and they seem to have little interest in improving. I just wonder why that is. I've known dancers who have danced for many years, know that they are not good dancers, would like to be, but don't make any serious effort to become good dancers.

For most people I know, dance is both a hobby and a social outlet. But, it is not a SERIOUS hobby. I've seen it over and over again. The great majority of folks will take lessons until they are good enough to have enough partners to get their dance fix when they go dancing.

For me it's more about how badly do I want to learn to do something. If it's something I really want to learn, I'll work on it and work on it until I'm satisfied or move onto something else (the curse of being an omnivore?). If it's something I really want, I guess I just don't think of it so much as "discipline", which I think of as externally imposed. Now self discipline is something different, but... I just don;t think of it that way.

 

[LoveTango]

Agreed

Agree, too.

I think most women/followers would agree.

The tango journey for men/leaders and for women/followers seem to be quite different.

 

[AndaBien]

Agree, too.

I think most women/followers would agree.

The tango journey for men/leaders and for women/followers seem to be quite different.

I dance tango because it provides me with an opportunity for creativity, nuance and expression that I find in no other dance. Challenge makes no difference to me.

 

[LittleLight]

I've been played music quite intensively, for a long time. My feelings are similar to Peaches'. I have no real discipline but quite a big obessesive streak which has enable to me to enjoy even the more boring bits of learning an instrument and dancing AT.

On a tangentially related topic, I've found my chosen musical genre (Irish traditional, music), because it is a social art (you play together with strangers), a popular/folk art and therefore a artform which has few to no formal rules but bags of hotly debated conventions (sound familiar?), went quite some way to preparing me for the social complexities of AT.

 

[Madahlia]

I've always thought that being better at something would be more enjoyable and rewarding.

I've always though that as well. But I'm not sure that it is true. Millions of people get pleasure out of things they are utterly mediocre at - should we condemn their joie de vivre?
I'm not sure that increased expertise leads to increased enjoyment - with a certain mindset it just leads to increased dissatisfaction with oneself and everyone else.

But, I know there are many people who spend lots of time doing certain activities and they seem to have little interest in improving. I just wonder why that is. I've known dancers who have danced for many years, know that they are not good dancers, would like to be, but don't make any serious effort to become good dancers.

They have clearly got their reward/effort ratio beautifully balanced. They don't want to improve enough, otherwise they would.

 

[dchester]

I've always though that as well. But I'm not sure that it is true. Millions of people get pleasure out of things they are utterly mediocre at - should we condemn their joie de vivre?

Yeah, but if they were awful and have progressed to mediocre, isn't that progress (and thus, their reason for happiness)?