bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
And then there's Captain Jep and BTM...
.
I demand satisfaction; shall we say Hampstead Heath at dawn? I favour the rapier
Englighten me, Please...
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I demand satisfaction; shall we say Hampstead Heath at dawn? I favour the rapier
Captain Jep
Active Member
Dave Bailey
Active Member
I've been taught soltadas in Tango classes, several times, by Argentinean teachers of Tango.
Shrug.
Dave Bailey
Active Member
Don't we all.
I suspect if you went to Hampstead Heath at dawn you might get an entirely new and unexpected type of satisfaction.
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
And I'll be your second ... (err what did we do in the first place?) ....
Dueling Rules
Other Dueling Codes
The Code Duello largely replaced earlier codes, including the Flos duellatorum (written in 1410) and Il duello (1550), both Italian dueling codes, as well as the German dueling rules set by the Fechtshulen dueling schools (Holland, pg. 24).
In 1777, a committee of Irishmen drew up the dueling code that would come to be used widely throughout Europe and America. The 1777 Irish code was called the Code Duello, and you can read the complete set of rules at PBS.org: Code Duello. This code was so popular that people worldwide came to see it as the "official" rules of dueling. In fact, the U.S. Navy included the text of the Code Duello in the midshipman's handbook up until dueling by naval officers was finally banned in 1862 (Holland, pg. 142).
Highlights of the rules include the steps of an apology, might call off the duel; proper dueling etiquette in terms of dignified behavior; the role of seconds; and what constitutes the end of a duel.
Apologies
An apology on the part of the challenged could avert a bloody duel if delivered properly. Keep in mind that most duels were carried out when one man offended another's honor. As such, the proper apology would logically help solve the problem, even once the duel had already begun. The Code Duello dictates a complex method of deciding who should apologize first:
Rule 1. The first offense requires the first apology, though the retort may have been more offensive than the insult. Example: A tells B he is impertinent, etc. B retorts that he lies; yet A must make the first apology because he gave the first offense, and then (after one fire) B may explain away the retort by a subsequent apology.
The rules also dictate when an apology can be accepted, thus preventing the duel, and when no verbal apology will be sufficient:
Rule 5: As a blow is strictly prohibited under any circumstances among gentlemen, no verbal apology can be received for such an insult. The alternatives, therefore -- the offender handing a cane to the injured party, to be used on his own back, at the same time begging pardon; firing on until one or both are disabled; or exchanging three shots, and then asking pardon without proffer of the cane ...
Dueling Etiquette
A duel is not a brawl. It is a controlled battle between gentlemen of honor. As such, a certain level of dignity was expected of all participants. Rule 13 is one that describes dignified dueling behavior. It is also one that was frequently broken, since many duelists did not really want to die, kill or maim. They only wanted to defend their honor. Rule 13 states:
No dumb shooting or firing in the air is admissible in any case. The challenger ought not to have challenged without receiving offense; and the challenged ought, if he gave offense, to have made an apology before he came on the ground; therefore, children's play must be dishonorable on one side or the other, and is accordingly prohibited.
Since the holding of the duel itself would usually be enough to satisfy honor, duelists might use dummy bullets, or declare ahead of time that they would fire their weapon into the air or at a non-vital area of their opponent's body. The Code Duello frowned on this.
The Code also encourages duelists to sleep on their wounded pride and then duel with a calm demeanor the next day: Rule 15 states:
Challenges are never to be delivered at night, unless the party to be challenged intend leaving the place of offense before morning; for it is desirable to avoid all hot-headed proceedings.
Seconds
The role of the seconds is spelled out in several rules. (Note Rule 18's reference to smooth-bored guns as opposed to rifled weapons.)
Rule 18. The seconds load in presence of each other, unless they give their mutual honors they have charged smooth and single, which should be held sufficient.
Rule 21. Seconds are bound to attempt a reconciliation before the meeting takes place, or after sufficient firing or hits, as specified.
The Code Duello acknowledges that the seconds might get involved in the fight themselves, as mentioned in the previous section. The Code is highly specific as to how this involvement might occur:
Rule 25. Where seconds disagree, and resolve to exchange shots themselves, it must be at the same time and at right angles with their principals.
When a Duel is Over
Dueling "to the death" is not considered desirable in the Code Duello, although this may have been the ultimate end to many duels. Remember: Dueling is about recovering honor, not about killing. Rule 5 states:
... If swords are used, the parties engage until one is well blooded, disabled, or disarmed; or until, after receiving a wound, and blood being drawn, the aggressor begs pardon.
Rule 22 addresses the issue as well:
Any wound sufficient to agitate the nerves and necessarily make the hand shake, must end the business for that day.
Perhaps one of the most important rules of dueling does not involve the mechanics of the duel itself, but rather who is allowed to duel. In medieval Europe, dueling was the sport of noble-born men. Although commoners did fight and certainly did face each other in contests that could be called duels, an actual, honor-bound duel had to be conducted between two men of noble rank. One reason for this was economic -- swords are expensive weapons, and not every peasant had one. But it was also a means of distinguishing the upper and lower classes. Many countries had laws forbidding commoners to fight amongst themselves, while dukes, princes and even kings were expected to duel each other.
chrisjj
New Member
I don't believe anyone can say whether a move is new in Argentine tango since he hasn't seen all that has come before. Those who think they know enough to say e.g. like Chicho "the sacada did not exist seven years ago" are always those of relative short experience dancing tango, and are telling us how little not how much they know.
I belive it is makes no sense to characterise this individualised and improvised dance in terms of moves. The only place I see that happing is in the world of step-peddling dance classes, where it is necessary for marketing - not for dancing. It is my experience that the majority who call themselves dancers of Argentine tango characterise the dance in terms of the music, embrace and ronda. Not moves. A move that fits within that can be part of Argentine tango. A move that does not can not.
Only they can say what that are trying to do.
Good, so the feature you are talking about are: music, embrace, and ronda.
In this case, music is Verdermar: a beautiful, traditional tango. No need to argue about it.
We cannot say anything about ronda because there is no other couple with them.
So, let's see the embrace: is there something revolutionary about their embrace?
chrisjj
New Member
No, they are not "features". E.g. one does not call something 'dancing tango' just because dancing and tango are happening in the same room at the same time.
If this couple was actually dancing Verdermar, instead of just dancing steps while Verdermar played, things would be very different. Including probably there would be no soltadas, and hence no soltada class, and hence no such discussion here!
We can say A LOT about ronda from what we see of that kind of dancing in the milongas. It is the kind that in a tight ronda will get the perpetrators pushed off the floor. In fact I think we can say that is probably one of the reasons this couple is offering classes in the first place. To see what I mean, have a look at the history of original peddlars of these steps, Fabian, Chicho and others, how they were rejected by the tango dancing scene in BsAs.
Apart from the fact that people can now be persuaded to pay to be taught something so bad? No, nothing that I can see.
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you are unaware of the Jive scene which probably has fifty dancers for every tango dancer and the aim is to get people on the dance floor enjoying themselves; quality of dancing is a by-product; but people do become good at it.......
and its better than some people who teach on the dance floor at milongas..
chrisjj
New Member
Excellent. How nice it would be if more tango classes had the same objective... and outcome.
Does the smiley indicate that your post is a joke, or do you really believe that they are not dancing to Verdermar?No, they are not "features". E.g. one does not call something 'dancing tango' just because dancing and tango are happening in the same room at the same time.
If this couple was actually dancing Verdermar, instead of just dancing steps while Verdermar played, things would be very different. Including probably there would be no soltadas, and hence no soltada class, and hence no such discussion here!
chrisjj
New Member
Do be sure to tell the instructors in this video. Even better, have them pay you to teach it to them!
chrisjj
New Member
Peaches, here's a hint from the thread's initial post:
If you can't stand to see this question discussed, you should probably unplug your computer from the internet
chrisjj
New Member
I don't think there's any need to add to the observations already made by others here on how little relation this dancing has to the music that happens to be playing at the same time.
But I'll say this again in case you missed it:
One does not call something 'dancing tango' just because dancing and tango are happening in the same room at the same time.
Having said which, at least they had the sense not to choose up-beat Canaro or D'Arienzo. Even their most gullible pupils might then have started to notice something was up.
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