chrisjj
New Member
It is very much on the record. e.g. see
The Traditional Way to Learn to Dance Tango
by Christine Denniston
http://www.history-of-tango.com/learn-to-dance.html
Englighten me, Please...
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It is very much on the record. e.g. see
The Traditional Way to Learn to Dance Tango
by Christine Denniston
http://www.history-of-tango.com/learn-to-dance.html
wonderwoman
Well-Known Member
Omg YES. I love any thread that starts out with phrases like "enlighten me please" and "I don't mean to have an attitude but".
I'm taking about specific rather than generalities.
For instance, were the women taught to follow a visual lead rather than to feel the push/pull/pressure/tension on their bodies?
Were the boys taught to use their right hands/arms to do the majority of guiding the woman as it is stated in so many dance texts?
How was the frame/embrace taught? Was it rigid, soft, etc.
Were people really taught to be improvisational from the beginning, as we are led to believe, or were they taught patterns? (Actually, many texts state that patterns are just a way to learn to dance and become less important as skill is developed. And those are regular dance books.)
For instance, were the women taught to follow a visual lead rather than to feel the push/pull/pressure/tension on their bodies?
Were the boys taught to use their right hands/arms to do the majority of guiding the woman as it is stated in so many dance texts?
How was the frame/embrace taught? Was it rigid, soft, etc.
Were people really taught to be improvisational from the beginning, as we are led to believe, or were they taught patterns? (Actually, many texts state that patterns are just a way to learn to dance and become less important as skill is developed. And those are regular dance books.)
Well, for guys who had "just two years of dance experience" they put on one heck of an impressive show in "The Tango Lesson".
I'm very sorry that you are unhappy with the way things are in your location. Although I have my own complaints about the scene here in Portland, they must be minor because I keep going back to dance AT in spite of any dissatisfaction.
It is of course NOT Buenos Aires, but some of the instructors here have tried very hard to bring a bit of Buenos Aired here. Every type of social dance and music reflects the character of the people who adopt it, more or less.
I could give you examples from the swing world, but I'm out of here for now, and this is the AT section, after all!
Captain Jep
Active Member
I dont know what chrisjj is talking about! Cambridge (the one in England) has a vibrant AT scene and some first-rate dancers. Admittedly I havent done years of classes there, but I can judge on the results.
Believe me, there are a lot worse dance teachers you can learn off.
(I did do a beginners course at the Unitarian Church in Cambridge. For which I am still very grateful.The other beginners course I was doing at the time - in Suffolk - was based around learning patterns. The Cambridge one definitely wasnt
)I deplore this way of teaching tango, or any dance, but in ballroom venues this is how any dance is taught, and lots of people feel comfortable with it. I thought most AT communities went beyond this method 15 years ago.
However, as the previous post indicates, it's not the only thing available in your vicinity.
Ampster
Active Member
"Argentine Tango Bronze Medal Routine???!!!"
NO! This is a ballroom studio teaching AT! This was how I started learning ballroom. It succeeded at improving my "memorizing steps" skills, and "paying the studio" skills. This method FAILED to teach me how to dance dynamically on a real social floor. Ultimately, it led me to drop ballroom altogether.I'm happy that AT is NOT taught this way (at least not where I'm from). I'm glad to have learned AT in a non-structured, dynamic & improvisational method.
That's the thing about B/L, because there are so many dances involved, it is conducive to a good business strategy. Your gonna pay an arm and a leg whether you get good instruction or bad."Argentine Tango Bronze Medal Routine???!!!"
I'm happy that AT is NOT taught this way (at least not where I'm from). I'm glad to have learned AT in a non-structured, dynamic & improvisational method.
Dave Bailey
Active Member
The St. Albans classes ... mmm.... how to phrase this... they have a different approach to the one I'd take, let's put it that way. If only because there's no way I'd remember that long a routine..."Argentine Tango Bronze Medal Routine???!!!"
I'm happy that AT is NOT taught this way (at least not where I'm from). I'm glad to have learned AT in a non-structured, dynamic & improvisational method.
But I don't think the St. Albans classes are representative of the way AT is taught in SE England. They're very sequence-based.
chrisjj
New Member
Women in BsAs weren't taught to follow, period. Women don't need to be taught because the woman's role is natural. Women danced only with guys who could dance.
Teaching of women exists today due to the need for partners for guys who cannot dance, mainly those in beginners classes where the teacher/instructor talks and shows rather than dances with the students, and tries to teach guys to lead without having learned to follow. Such classes didn't exist in BsAs before the 1980s commercialisation of tango dance education by the likes of Gustavo Naviera.
I've seen no evidence that it was taught. Like everything else, it was learned direct - by dancing with someone who could dance.
chrisjj
New Member
What I am talking about Captain Jep is, as I said: "the dance school in my home city Cambridge (UK)" not the entire Cambridge tango scene. Cambridge has many other active teachers (none of which learned at the dance school) and milongas.
chrisjj
New Member
Steve, your dates are out by about 15 years.
spectator
Member
Chris, you are on thin ice. I'm sure a lot of the Brits can guess who you are implicitly getting at, and since they afaik are not reading and therefore have no chance to reply I think you should give it a rest.
I would also like to point out, that I have been to lessons over the years where the teacher has made it explicitly clear that they are trying to impart a principle, e.g. things you can do with a change of direction, so they demonstrate a little routine or step to show the basic mechanics and then try to encourage people to re interpret it and find the different variations they can apply the concept in. The out come however is that most of the attendees become entirely lost in the detail and fixate on the demonstrated step as the purpose of the class. The teacher has become an instructor.
The problem is the mind set of a lot of people attending "lessons", they go to collect steps and nothing the person providing the new material can do can change that.
Perhaps that's a big part of the issue that you are claiming has arisen in Cambridge? There are people there who have been going to classes for 8 years and only focusing on the specific step in the class, but that is not the fault of the organisers. And yes they do dance like robots, but what can you do? they are ENJOYING themselves.
Repeated attacks make the people involved in organising it defensive and the whole atmosphere unpleasant and unamenable to change or disscussion. Also the St Albans thing has nothing to do with tango in cambridge and I don't really get why you put them together like that except to imply that that is what the classes look like in Cambridge and by extension dancers in the milongas who have come from the classes. You would be wrong.
I would also like to point out, that I have been to lessons over the years where the teacher has made it explicitly clear that they are trying to impart a principle, e.g. things you can do with a change of direction, so they demonstrate a little routine or step to show the basic mechanics and then try to encourage people to re interpret it and find the different variations they can apply the concept in. The out come however is that most of the attendees become entirely lost in the detail and fixate on the demonstrated step as the purpose of the class. The teacher has become an instructor.
The problem is the mind set of a lot of people attending "lessons", they go to collect steps and nothing the person providing the new material can do can change that.
Perhaps that's a big part of the issue that you are claiming has arisen in Cambridge? There are people there who have been going to classes for 8 years and only focusing on the specific step in the class, but that is not the fault of the organisers. And yes they do dance like robots, but what can you do? they are ENJOYING themselves.
Repeated attacks make the people involved in organising it defensive and the whole atmosphere unpleasant and unamenable to change or disscussion. Also the St Albans thing has nothing to do with tango in cambridge and I don't really get why you put them together like that except to imply that that is what the classes look like in Cambridge and by extension dancers in the milongas who have come from the classes. You would be wrong.
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
It seems that what you are advocating is an "apprenticeship" approach that follows the how leaders in BsAs learnt from other leaders. That is one way to skin a cat. What and how the Cambridge tango teachers teach is constantly evolving thanks to the influence of teachers from other parts of the world (BsAs and Nijmegen as examples). Inevitably some of what you suggest does happen because those learning are dancing with each other and there will be an organic learning process. While I agree that learning to follow is an advantage for a leader. I dont think its a prerequisite; they have enough to learn already.
Dave Bailey
Active Member
Walking backwards in high heels is "natural"?
That bias always happens, everywhere and in every dance scene.
Errr.... that's everyone at the start, surely?
I'm getting a weird sense of deja vu here, but I'm going to stick with my crazy belief that structured learning is more efficient than by-your-bootstraps experience in most ways.
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