Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

Sure, and that takes a lot of technical skill to do well in a very small space which for me is flashier
To me flashier means something that is done to draw attraction of an outsider observer. Often done irrespective of the music, time, and place. You seem to imply execution of something that requires high level of technical proficiency as flashy.

There are a lot of subtle things a couple can do in a dance that requires high technical proficiency. To me use of that isn’t same as being flashy.
 
I must say I'm a bit uncomfortable with that idea. The leader in question here didn't put himself forward for a critique, and while we might exchange views in conversation at an event, that would be a private and transient conversation, while a forum thread here is both public and permanent.

I think professionals are fair game, as the hold themselves up as examples, but not random social dancers.
Exactly. It is one of the reason I refrain from providing negative comments a dancer who got caught by the camera during social dancing. Unless they happen to be the pros, who are getting paid and dance for public consumption.
 
In the above, does the word "feeling" relate to emotion? Or to impulses conveyed through physical connection? One hopes all partner dancers value the latter. Otherwise the two partners aren't dancing together.
The problem is “feeling” is a very amorphous label when used by the dancers. That’s not only in restricted tango. In anll kinds of social dances it also gets weaponised to either critic dancers who dance with good technique or to defend dancers who have been dancing for 40 years, with limited vocabulary and poor technique.

“Feeling” can mean (between two partners in in social dancing context):

a. Connection between the couple - sense of connection, either physical or felt otherwise. possibly including emotional (by one or both of the two partners). In AT context this is perhaps what people mostly mean by “feeling”

b. Chemistry, again either physical or otherwise. Physical because both have sufficient skills that align when dancing. Otherwise when the music, the quality of the partner’s skills, or their way of interpretation gives rise to emotional or mental connection for the duration of that one dance.

c. Compatibility of movements: can be physical compatibility that translates to purely mental or intellectual compatibility of how both partners are approaching the dance. Example is listening to the music in the same way.

d. Share philosophy. Can include elements of previous four. It is more about sharing mutual preference for type of dance that both partners want to create. Not only is one of the two not dancing in opposition to other, but they share a preference for dancing in a certain way. Or can adapt themselves to dance in a certain way.

e. Emotional. This will vary across the spectrum which is not surprising. Some people have strong emotional reaction internally, for example to say to the music. Some will be more stoic. Some will only react strongly to certain music only. Other ways that can get emotional response if how the partner feels when in an embrace. You could dance with two different partners, identical in physical attitudes, similar style of embrace (physically), and yet you might feel more emotional reaction to one than the other. Another reason for emotional response or reaction is level of physical attraction. Physical attraction can make the dance or embrace feel better than it really is. Call it an attraction bias.

I don’t think any of above is foreign to any one in partner dancing. Most of this is common to most partner dances. I am excluding the “feelings that get evoked in an outside observer. Another thing in common across partner dancers is that “feelings” can differ between the two partners. For example a beginner dancing with better experienced dancer might have “wonderful” feeling during the dance and in an extreme case the experienced partner might be eagerly waiting for the dance to end.

AT dancers “think” they put more premium on “connection” than rest of the social dancing types. The slow tempo of the music and close embrace amplifies this “feeling” of “connection” (perhaps the physical nature of close embrace and slow tempo music makes hormones fly more easily).
 
I do not think that can be generalize across regions - Argentina, USA, Europe, etc.

One side can claim “feeling” for dancing simple but with average skills that leave much to be desired.
No, not across regions, certainly not. I simply meant between the two people dancing.
 
In the above, does the word "feeling" relate to emotion? Or to impulses conveyed through physical connection? One hopes all partner dancers value the latter. Otherwise the two partners aren't dancing together.
In my statement I was referring to the emotional connection between the partners not any physical impulse.
 
Came across this in random YouTube feed.


Without getting bogged down into pros or cons, what would this type of dancing be categorized as? The description says it is Georgian Encuentro. Therefore in Europe.

Is it what you expect to see at a milonga in any part of the world or does it have elements of how they dance in Europe (which are more common)? :)
 
I must say I'm a bit uncomfortable with that idea. The leader in question here didn't put himself forward for a critique, and while we might exchange views in conversation at an event, that would be a private and transient conversation, while a forum thread here is both public and permanent.

I think professionals are fair game, as the hold themselves up as examples, but not random social dancers.
You’re right, of course. After I wrote that I thought, as long as I’m not the victim… ;) On the other hand, since most of us are not striving for more than social dancing, comments on choreographed pro dancing with the entire floor for themselves might not be the best way to get something useful out of for our own growth. How about videos of pros dancing socially?
 
You’re right, of course. After I wrote that I thought, as long as I’m not the victim… ;)

I don't mind it — plenty of people sneer at my dancing, so I'm used to it. Either what they say is false, and so it doesn't bother me unless they're out to turn everyone against me, or what they say is true, in which case I can either use what they say to help me improve, or I'm satisfied with whatever they're commenting on, so I can just leave it as it is and forget about it.

Not that I don't get hurt if someone outright says my dancing is (for example) bad or that it looks horrible, of course, I'm only human. But I've learned to take comments like that in stride.
 
I should try that. Have a friend who goes all the time (to marathons in Europe) and he prefers them to our local scene. I've never done it though. Traveling gets expensive.

Let me know if you ever do try, we might even be going to the same one! I'm sort of acquaintances with two New Yorkers too, one of whom prefers Europe and doesn't like events in the states IIRC.

We've had some fun chats about the Zouk champion debacle months ago. :rofl:
 
The problem is “feeling” is a very amorphous label when used by the dancers. That’s not only in restricted tango. In anll kinds of social dances it also gets weaponised to either critic dancers who dance with good technique or to defend dancers who have been dancing for 40 years, with limited vocabulary and poor technique.

“Feeling” can mean (between two partners in in social dancing context):

It also can describe musicality/interpretation - you're right that this makes the word very vague.
 
I should try that. Have a friend who goes all the time (to marathons in Europe) and he prefers them to our local scene. I've never done it though. Traveling gets expensive.
It doesn’t have to be. Dollar is strong right now, and if you are used to NYC prices, you’ll be pleasantly surprised. Pre-Covid I used to go to NY quite frequently to dance, but then I got spoiled with the European scene and found NY was way too expensive. In my adopted European scene, a milonga costs 10-12 bucks, a large glass of wine 5-6 bucks, hotel under 100 bucks… Triple those prices in NY. One of my favorite lesser known marathons is 110€ all meals included for 3 days in a small city where hotels are in the 50-90€ range. There are a lot more expensive ones, of course.
 
...AT dancers “think” they put more premium on “connection” than rest of the social dancing types...
Isn't it in reality exactly the other way around? The close physical contact in CE reduces the connection between the dance partners: in an open dance hold or even without any physical contact with each other, the level of attention and empathy must be much higher. For example: side-by-side in Lindy hop, I adjust more to my partner than when I project my next steps in close embrace in tango!
The slow tempo of the music and.. the physical nature of close embrace.. makes hormones fly more easily..
I think tango is somewhere in between: I find it more exciting to see a dance partner doing sexy moves in salsa than just to feel her in tango. And swing dancing doesn't give rise to any ambitions at all.
 
Isn't it in reality exactly the other way around? The close physical contact in CE reduces the connection between the dance partners: in an open dance hold or even without any physical contact with each other, the level of attention and empathy must be much higher.
The way I've heard connection used in dance doesn't rely on empathy. Whether it depends on "attention" depends on precisely what you mean by that. Of course you have to pay attention but that's with any type of lead or follow.

In some away positions-- shines-- visual cues must be used. But that's not usually called connection, at least not the way I hear the word used.

I think there should always be connection when there is physical contact. Partner's motion and energy can be transferred through that connection. The parts of the body used for connection can differ-- hand vs some part of torso or legs. But my understanding is connection can come through almost any points of contact. Of course you can know you are touching-- but connection requires some sensitivity with the partners responding to what that touch communicates.

I'm not great but I can definitely feel my partner's core lower and advance through the body connection in closed hold in smooth. Of course hand connections still can matter for some things, but lots of the connection is through the body or torso, not hands.

The better leads can feel me respond and feel where I move. I can even manage to confuse them if the timing of my steps is bad. :)

Beginner smooth leads often don't sense the follows response especially in body connections. Their brain is often just too 'busy' remembering pattern sequences, worrying about floor craft and so on to sense the follow through the core. I think for beginner leads often initially sense pull/push hand connection and only latter sense connection through the body. This could be the source of the misconception that connection is less in body contact. It might be for some dancers-- but that's a technical short coming. Body connection is not inherently less than hand connection.


(Mind you-- the lead not being able to sense the follow through a body connection can be due to the follows flaws just as easily at the leads. If she's a noodle, or her torso is just jello she isn't even giving a good lead a fighting chance. But if he can feel body connection with some follows and not others he's going to know that the body connection itself is strong, though not with a particular follow.)
 

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