Leaders. How was your Tango journey?

[TTanguero]

I think so much in tango comes down to luck, and never more so with the social side.

A friend has described his experience of London tango, which has been totally different to my own – but the factors which made it easy for me all came down to luck. One, I chose a tango school with its own milongas, including one in the same venue as the lessons, making the transition from classroom to milonga completely painless. Two, I was introduced to collaborative dance really early on (four months in), so way more experienced followers could express their dance with me (which also massively reduced the usual beginner leader fear of running out of things to do). Three, I started a tango blog which somehow took off, so even as a raw beginner I got very well integrated into the tango scene.

As it happens, BsAs ruined me for London tango, so I now almost never dance there. Two recent visits to one of the better London milongas only served to reinforce the view that it's no longer for me, so I'll continue to dance outside the city.

 

[opendoor]

..most ..bachata and Kizomba dancers.. feel the connection is less in salsa due to its open hold, too many patterns, and complex fast music. Salsa dancers push back saying you can attain connection in salsa too.

Perhaps these Kizombeiros and Kizombeiras mistake connection with contact area, influence or control. All of which is right the opposite of what connection actually means.

 

[tangoing]

NYC gets a bad rap that way. Most dancers are pretty welcoming of new people. The cliques are the problem but fortunately they're limited in size.

I think that depends a lot on which milongas you go to and if you happen to be proactive in being visible at that milonga.

 

[tangoing]

There's no actual practicas in London, to the best of my knowledge, they're essentially milongas that masquerade as practicas, but you do get the occasional dancers practising something. Would be nice to experience one, it's been a while!

I don't find it rude if an (unknown) follower rejects me at practicas or milongas — it's definitely their right to do so, and I don't take it personally even though rejection hurts, and they do it in full knowledge that I will probably not invite them again. I think that's fair. What I do find rude is if they're dismissive, snap out a sharp "No", things like that that make a lack of respect clear. For the followers who've danced with me at least once and decided that they didn't enjoy it enough, that's 100% okay with me, it's not like I've never danced with someone and decided it wasn't worth dancing with them again after all.

Followers go on my no-dance list if they have a "黑臉". Hard to translate all the connotations but essentially a stern, bitter or displeased expression, lit. "black face". Maybe they're frustrated after ironing their seats, maybe they've had a bad day, but I figure that if I can make my own entertainment at the milonga when I haven't danced in hours without looking visibly vexed, they have no excuse.

Or if I've tried to cabeceo twice or thrice at the same milonga, and then once more at a different milonga. Or if I really don't think dancing with them is better than sitting down for most tandas.

I bear followers who reject me no ill-will, I just don't see the point of making their acquaintance (except by chance) or acknowledging their existence beyond a simple smile and nod in passing. Way more worth it to focus on my people and things.

Yeah rejections at milongas or fake practicas (the casual milongas) are fine. I was talking about rejections at real practicas are pretty rude.

 

[Bailango]

I'm glad for you, must be nice to not experience any of that.

Oof.

Except we have a very snobbish and snooty scene sometimes bordering on unfriendly, whose (ill)reputation is known to many who been dancing long enough. Including in BsAs! Imagine that.

I think it isn’t that people want to be unfriendly. But once you have been in it for a while, it rubs off. People probably get defensive and start behaving similar to how they see others behaving. You can see how friendly beginners very soon become stand-offish after being in the scene for a while. I think people find safety in social cliques.

I mentioned we have high turnover over. Every 3-4 years the regulars change by as much as 60%.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Can't say the same for London, unfortunately! Would have quit tango if I weren't already experienced enough when I moved there. I had an okay time in Paris last time, but I was a visiting DJ, so I'll see how things go next time.

How was Paris? I'd like to check it out. I've never danced tango there but I speak the language and spent a lot of time in France.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I was talking about rejections at real practicas are pretty rude.

Yeah, although that happens often. We even had cliques at prácticas! Still do to a large extent. I can go to some prácticas and I can guarantee you that many, even most, followers won't bother dancing with me. They seem to follow the same rules as they do at milongas. That was very hard when I was just starting out.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I think that depends a lot on which milongas you go to and if you happen to be proactive in being visible at that milonga.

Yeah, I guess. It also depends on how selective you are about who you want to dance with or think you might want to dance with.

 

[tangoing]

Yeah, although that happens often. We even had cliques at prácticas! Still do to a large extent. I can go to some prácticas and I can guarantee you that many, even most, followers won't bother dancing with me. They seem to follow the same rules as they do at milongas. That was very hard when I was just starting out.

guessing you mean the tues practica, all the other ones are a lot friendlier

 

[pianistamediano]

How was Paris? I'd like to check it out. I've never danced tango there but I speak the language and spent a lot of time in France.

Friday was Milonga Oh-La-La which runs sporadically (not sure if it's stopped or not); not so many people IIRC, but I danced a bit, about what I'd expect as a strange leader from elsewhere visiting for the first time. Saturday was El Garron, a lot of people, a monthly milonga which is probably the most popular I think. Floorcraft got very annoying at one point but never to the point of complete frustration. I DJed on Sunday at La Gioia, a milonga on a boat. Nice atmosphere, great music, a lot of people turned up, and they kept on dancing so much that the organiser extended the milonga by 1.5 hours. I'm not sure about the usual turnout, but from videos on their Facebook page, it seems like it's good every night. Would recommend going at least an hour or two later than the starting time, it starts at 7 pm sometimes and that's roughly when the French eat dinner I think.

I hear the Paris tango weekends are quite nice. Very mixed opinions about the tango scene in Paris in general though; one of my friends who is an amazing follower and a long-time resident there is quite fed-up with how the scene is, and she's more or less quit tango (but not just because of Paris tango) to spend more time on non-tango stuff. And another amazing follower who lives here in London really enjoys it.

 

[pianistamediano]

guessing you mean the tues practica, all the other ones are a lot friendlier

Yeah, I guess. It also depends on how selective you are about who you want to dance with or think you might want to dance with.

So any recommendations for NYC milongas then? Should I even bother considering the practicas unless I want to practise?

 

[tangoing]

So any recommendations for NYC milongas then? Should I even bother considering the practicas unless I want to practise?

Are you coming to nyc any time soon?

People can just purely dance at practicas if they want, a lot of followers do that, and generally tues/thurs practicas are higher level than most milongas. You have to prepare to navigate around people just being stationary on the pista discussing whatever they’re practicing.

 

[Bailango]

I hear the Paris tango weekends are quite nice. Very mixed opinions about the tango scene in Paris in general though; one of my friends who is an amazing follower and a long-time resident there is quite fed-up with how the scene is, and she's more or less quit tango (but not just because of Paris tango) to spend more time on non-tango stuff. And another amazing follower who lives here in London really enjoys it.

I visited local Paris Milongas pre-Covid and then during 2022 I think.

I found Paris scene to be very active and its level no different than Berlin. To me it was friendly enough.

 

[Bailango]

So any recommendations for NYC milongas then?

I will definitely recommend NYC milongas though it has been almost a decade since I danced at a few there. In most of the big metros around the world with good tango scene you can’t go wrong!

Should I even bother considering the practicas unless I want to practise?

What do you mean? If you are asking whether practicalongas are worth going to, personally I like them. They are more casual. You likely end up dancing with the same people you would at milongas.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

guessing you mean the tues practica, all the other ones are a lot friendlier

Never been, so can't really say. Only know it by reputation.