Milonguero style

[opendoor]

As outsiders we cannot tell what teaching occurs between Argentines.
Even those who do dance regularly and teach one to one as a sideline
can overcharge the visitors (yes I have personal knowledge). Tourists
the World over are exploited as a source of easy revenue.

Because I know a lot of argentines and several german girls that live in BsAs for some years I think I got an idea how argentines teach argentines in BsAs. But sure I have a different approach than you have: I´m interested in dancing not in tango. Tango is my initial point, but not my aim.

 

[UKDancer]

Men learning from men was of necessity originally and it isn't necessary for tango any more than it is for ballroom. You may reason that it's useful for perspective and I wouldn't argue with that.

The very compact social dance of the central Milongas was/is of necessity and also isn't necessary for tango. You may prefer it as a personal style and I wouldn't argue with that.

I do think that the re-establishment of proper practicas would greatly improve the learning of tango as a social dance - I'm also confident that no one would turn up. Teachers working with students in a class/workshop or 1-2-1 setting is here to stay, but if you happen to hang your 'authenticity' hat on the hook of the method of learning, then tango died out everywhere a long time ago.

If your hook is the physical location, then the dance doesn't travel; and if your hook is the particular style of dance, then you should stop using the generic name for your dance, and name your style unambiguously. If it's that you only drink wine from the Malbec grape, or that the ladies shoes need to be a certain brand, or that ....

You get the idea.

 

[UKDancer]

... Your dream that you have learned BsAs social tango
at home and in preparation may well be shattered.

I think you know that this is not a dream that we share.

 

[JohnEm]

Because I know a lot of argentines and several german girls that live in BsAs for some years I think I got an idea how argentines teach argentines in BsAs.

You may know them but how and what they teach is another matter
unless you have experienced it. I haven't so I don't know.

But sure I have a different approach than you have: I´m interested in dancing not in tango. Tango is my initial point, but not my aim.

You seem to have no idea of my objective is even though I've written enough.
But to clarify, my aim is also dance whether it be Tango, Milonga, Vals
or a number of other dances. But if I want the freedom to dance outside
the embrace it will be the other dances.

The discovery was that dancing in the embrace, regarded as restrictive
by some, is actually so enabling when it comes to real dancing as a
partnership step by step to the music.

It's perhaps interesting to note that many Argentines socially dance
all kinds of music in the embrace. It's only Tango if it's tango music.
Abroad dancing in the embrace is regarded as tango because it's so
different to the norm for most observers. Sometimes I'd rather think
of it being only Tango to tango music and "non-tango" to everything else.

I've danced jazz & paso doble at Lo de Celia in the embrace, plus swing
and blues at home. Call it argentine style dancing if you like but not tango.

 

[JohnEm]

The very compact social dance of the central Milongas was/is of necessity and also isn't necessary for tango. You may prefer it as a personal style and I wouldn't argue with that.

There are quite a few places in the UK where the practice of a compact
social dance would enable dancers to continue dancing despite the crowded
conditions. Instead the ronda stutters, stops, starts, gets congested
etc., etc.

These are usually milongas run by teaching organisers who do not teach
the dancing helpful, even necessary, for such conditions. Nor do they
restrict the attendance to numbers appropriate for the dance they teach.

I do think that the re-establishment of proper practicas would greatly improve the learning of tango as a social dance - I'm also confident that no one would turn up. Teachers working with students in a class/workshop or 1-2-1 setting is here to stay, but if you happen to hang your 'authenticity' hat on the hook of the method of learning, then tango died out everywhere a long time ago.

No need for any "authenticity" hat. It's a dance that teachers mainly
avoid teaching possibly because it needs more doing than teaching.
Six lessons or so for women, maybe 8 to 12 for men though all the numbers
depend on aptitude. You have to learn to dance though.

If your hook is the physical location, then the dance doesn't travel; and if your hook is the particular style of dance, then you should stop using the generic name for your dance, and name your style unambiguously. If it's that you only drink wine from the Malbec grape, or that the ladies shoes need to be a certain brand, or that ....

The hook is not the physical location, the hook is the dance itself.
And that is all that matters.

I've always been prepared to name my style, and have done previously.
I wish others were as it leads to such confusion when talking about
technique which are so different from one style to another.

Argentines call all indoor sociable tango (and their view of sociable
depends on the floor conditions) Salon. But you know that. More
specifically it's "Tango del Centro", maybe Apilado but I'm avoiding
Milonguero. See Tango Voice for all there is to say on styles.

 

[UKDancer]

There are quite a few places in the UK where the practice of a compact
social dance would enable dancers to continue dancing despite the crowded
conditions. Instead the ronda stutters, stops, starts, gets congested
etc., etc.

No quarrel there, except that I would say that we are all better dancers if we can adapt to the conditions we find, and express ourselves in a variety of ways through dance. We may choose a particular style, but it is not always appropriate in all places and at all times. We can, of course, choose to restrict where we dance, but that wouldn't be my choice.

No need for any "authenticity" hat. It's a dance that teachers mainly
avoid teaching possibly because it needs more doing than teaching.
Six lessons or so for women, maybe 8 to 12 for men though all the numbers
depend on aptitude. You have to learn to dance though.

Most tango groups are acutely in need of labels, so insecure are they in their place in the firmament, but I wouldn't disagree with your basic premise (but I think you are being a bit generous with your assumption of general apptitude, and therefore, numbers). I'd be very happy to have a steady stream of the curious and keen pass through my hands, as a teacher, for just a few weeks, and then to retain them as dancers who will grow in skill and experience through dancing. It is the premise behind my own teaching syllabus in every style I teach - I want people to immediately be able to 'get around' the dance floor, and then to refine and improve, over time. My heart sinks, rather, a the sight of the perpetual students.

We are, of course, talking about a simple dance: not simple in the sense of being without skill and technique, but without flash. An ocho cortado is about as complicated as it gets, and other movements, where acquired at all, come later, and to be used sparingly where not out of place.

Argentines call all indoor sociable tango (and their view of sociable
depends on the floor conditions) Salon. But you know that. More
specifically it's "Tango del Centro", maybe Apilado but I'm avoiding
Milonguero. See Tango Voice for all there is to say on styles.

My dance is Salon Tango too, and I won't be pinned down beyond that. There is a time and place for everything, but I feel under no compulsion to be all things to all men, either. Anyone who attends one of my classes can see, straight away, what they are getting, and if it doesn't suit them, I wish them well as they move on.

 

[JohnEm]

Most tango groups are acutely in need of labels, so insecure are they in their place in the firmament, but I wouldn't disagree with your basic premise (but I think you are being a bit generous with your assumption of general apptitude, and therefore, numbers). I'd be very happy to have a steady stream of the curious and keen pass through my hands, as a teacher, for just a few weeks, and then to retain them as dancers who will grow in skill and experience through dancing. It is the premise behind my own teaching syllabus in every style I teach - I want people to immediately be able to 'get around' the dance floor, and then to refine and improve, over time. My heart sinks, rather, a the sight of the perpetual students.

Bravo - and to most of the rest of the post!

 

[opendoor]

Most tango groups are acutely in need of labels, so insecure are they in their place in the firmament..

I don´t follow that! Not the groups, not the dancers. It simply is a result of the commercialization. The easiest way to justify another school among all the already existing in town is a new name and a "new style". Real dancers dancer their own style.

 

[Mladenac]

I don´t follow that! Not the groups, not the dancers. It simply is a result of the commercialization. The easiest way to justify another school among all the already existing in town is a new name and a "new style". Real dancers dancer their own style.

I would disagree with you.

You may be perfect dancer for yourself, and you can be sure you dance perfectly.
But, very important but that you don't fit into your community.

Will you dance, I doubt.

Real dancers after years of practice dance their style with a few dancers.

I may lead sth intricate and complicated in a very clear way, but what I feel that follower is lost on simpler elements. And maybe the majority of followers.
I will adjust and dance for her, in a style mostly appropriate to her.

Reagarding comercialization and schools.
You be autodidact and be able to learn sth that you would never use.
I tried to add some diference in existing figure, but generally it's not so welcomed.
Some dancers like and are willing to explore but majority doesn't.

 

[opendoor]

I would disagree with you.

You may be perfect dancer for yourself, and you can be sure you dance perfectly. But, very important but that you don't fit into your community.
Will you dance, I doubt.

In your beginning you actually stick to your studio, your teachers, your peer group. After 3 years you try out every teacher in town or in your region. But, mañana, one of these days you are going to say, nuts to you. And please be honest, also you did it this way!

Real dancers after years of practice dance their style with a few dancers.

That´s alright. Learning tango doesn´t mean to learn steps, patterns and sequences. Learning tango means to fill the address book of your mobile. And some day you will be independent of your former tango scene. Please be honest, you´ve done it as well!

...I will adjust and dance for her, in a style mostly appropriate to her.

Caught, I also do it this way.

..I tried to add some diference in existing figure, but generally it's not so welcomed....

Ok, some start as a social dancer (me) and end up as an artist (artists are lonely).

 

[Subliminal]

Subliminal, I pay attention to your feelings. But I know that there are so many tango out there in the world that dance different styles and yet feel happy, too. I know that there still is a great number of open-hold tangueros in the US. But it is not there fault not jet to have encountered milonguero style.
You know I try to master every tango style, but I have no preference (canyengue, milonguero, salón, a little bit escenario, neotango). The music tells me which style to choose (Perhaps you remember my post on the history of tango music). And of course I do not claim "to tango" when I dance contact impro. But indeed I get a kick out of it, too. All the same with swing or salsa. I simply love to dance.

I completely agree! Especially with the last paragraph. I too am trying to master every style. I was being sarcastic in my post far above. I guess that didn't come through.

 

[Mad Tango Scientist]

yes

on a serious note; you are an intelligent human being. if you cant see what is useful in what a teacher is offering, because of their background, then I think it amounts to a prejudice....I find most of the teachers I evaluate as good, are teaching the same thing in their own way, with differing degrees of emphasis, and respond to the level of the people they are teaching.

You are right. I recant what I said earlier. Also, I have been thinking about it and I remember from school that a practicing attorney was one of my worst teachers, but a non-practicing one was my best teachers, so a teacher does not have to be a social dancer to teach social dancing. OTOH, I know a lot of teachers, especially imports from BA, that can't navigate at a Milonga. In fact, AT teachers tend to be worse than the average AT social dancer at floorcraft.

 

[AndaBien]

...I too am trying to master every style...

I only want to master one style, my own. I dance different ways to D'Arienzo or Di Sarli, or from one tune to another, but I don't think of that as different styles. I'm only interested in the dance that comes out of me.

 

[Mad Tango Scientist]

I don´t follow that! Not the groups, not the dancers. It simply is a result of the commercialization. The easiest way to justify another school among all the already existing in town is a new name and a "new style". Real dancers dancer their own style.

This is so true.

Real dancers after years of practice dance their style with a few dancers.

I think it's very much the opposite. The better AT dancer you are, the more dancers that you can dance with and the number of partners always grows.

Also, the better dancer you are in AT, the better you can lead movements that the follow has never learned. For instance, advance AT dancers can generally lead volcadas on follows that have never used them before. I mean volcadas in both the Nuevo sense and Milonguero sense.

 

[Subliminal]

I only want to master one style, my own. I dance different ways to D'Arienzo or Di Sarli, or from one tune to another, but I don't think of that as different styles. I'm only interested in the dance that comes out of me.

That's mincing words a little, isn't it? Everyone who dances long enough will have their own unique style. But there are also signature elements that describe different dance forms. Both structural and musical.

For example, it might be possible to dance a slow melodic Di Sarli in close embrace with slow, languous steps, marking the beat or melody with small turns in place. Or, floor and traffic permitting, perhaps longer, flowing strides, opening the embrace to the swell of the music for a flowing elegant turn, then gathering back to close for the next phrase. Or some might even mark the long poingent score of the violins with gentle colgadas, twining about each other then switching roles in mid movement. All of these and more are possibilities. Sometimes all within the same dance with the right partner. But if a dancer wants to focus on one of the different styles, there is nothing wrong with that either.

But for me, it sounds like a fun challenge to do a bit of everything.

To bring the subject back home, one of my teachers told me that when you are experimenting with different styles, sometimes you can forget your basics and get lost in patterns and technique. She said one good way to get them back is to go focus on what we're calling milonguero style. By limiting yourself to close embrace, it forces you to bring the focus back to connection and musicality. Something that should exist in all styles of tango.