Not sure what to do next

I actually follow from time to time (in practicas, and with female leads in milongas), and I do notice it is different vs a male/female (assuming similar skill) but not enough to detail why. Obviously the differentiation between female/male body plays a part and where their weight and balance rests -- but what are the biggest things you have to adjust for (I think I do it unconsciously but not sure what)?
It varies. Personally I'd simplistically put it down to 'bulk' - however you wish to interpret that. Yes, there are small females who are good leaders (noteworthy for me was a diminutive Asian lady. If she decided you weren't moving, you weren't moving). But could also be attributed to 'assertiveness', 'positivity' (don't say you're sorry!), body shape/contact/abrazo for the roles. Possibly also the mental change and thought process for both for role reversal. However you describe the spectrum of differences between the sexes.

I'm happy to follow in a practice situation, but I don't want to be a follower in dancing.
 
I actually follow from time to time (in practicas, and with female leads in milongas), and I do notice it is different vs a male/female (assuming similar skill) but not enough to detail why. Obviously the differentiation between female/male body plays a part and where their weight and balance rests -- but what are the biggest things you have to adjust for (I think I do it unconsciously but not sure what)?
It varies. Personally I'd simplistically put it down to 'bulk' - however you wish to interpret that. Yes, there are small females who are good leaders (noteworthy for me was a diminutive Asian lady. If she decided you weren't moving, you weren't moving). But could also be attributed to 'assertiveness', 'positivity' (don't say you're sorry!), body shape/contact/abrazo for the roles. Possibly also the mental change and thought process for both for role reversal. However you describe the spectrum of differences between the sexes

I'm happy to follow in a practice situation, but I don't want to be a follower in dancing. However I do need to think what the follower is doing when I lead. I have a sort of reverse-lookup when following: If I did that what do I want the follower (i.e. me!) to do?
 
It varies. Personally I'd simplistically put it down to 'bulk' - however you wish to interpret that.
Length, too. I can lead a lot of pivoting movements by stepping very far around, almost behind a follower. Or, I can step that way but leave my upper body calm (using significant dissociation, of course), and then let my body spiral "snap" the movement. All of this works largely because my legs and torso are longer than my partner's, and also because my arms are longer and don't have to shift around as I do it. It'd work even if I were lighter than my partner, because it's about each partner wanting to stay oriented toward the other wherever they may be, not about conveying force.

My coach, who is tiny next to me, cannot do this as easily. I am too broad and tall compared to her. Getting around me that way would involve letting go, even despite her superior technique and dissociation, and in fact she tends to lead these things to me as near-soltadas in many cases, with a lot of arm-sliding.

But bulk is a big part of it. I can drive turns standing in place, simply by twisting and spiraling to create massive angular momentum. My coach has to use sacadas to develop the same energy, so she's walking, not standing in place. Likewise, I can lead very deep volcadas without going visibly off my own axis, because I'm a wall next to her, but she really has to go off axis to lead me in a deep volcada, because if she were to play wall, my bulk would upend her regardless of her great technique.

Colgadas have all of the above considerations. Between my long arms and weight, I can send her out as far as I like without really having to lean more than marginally off axis. She pretty much has to let her hands slip along my arms quite far, and really open up the colgada, to support me in the same movement. Even boleos, planeos, and other high-leg-extension movements feel this effect. . . legs are heavy, and a big male leg is a lot harder to counterbalance and control.

And not that lifts are social steps, but I can lift her one-handed with my weak arm. She wouldn't even try to lift me. "It's technique, not strength!" goes only so far. Tell that to your hernia.

There are lots of little things too, including stuff like relative leg length in ganchos and other high invasions. She can throw that stuff my way with abandon because her legs end below mine, and even her highest shots are comfortably within the open space I'm leaving. I have to use a lot of knee bend to achieve the same thing with her.
 
However, she cannot control who asks her pupils to dance at Milongas and the ratio of follows to leaders here in Essex is 5/6 follows to 1 lead.
So, for example, a milonga with 10 men and 60 women? For every 7 men dancing (3 will like to take a break), there are 50 women either pausing, sitting or dancing together? I can't really imagine such a situation. (And I don't have to, because then I would only dance a few tandas with my girlfriend before we leave such a milonga.)

But if women want to dance with men at such a ratio, a repression will take place – either you'll leave sooner or later, or someone else will. You should be clear about why you want to dance a couple's dance like tango, and that in your situation a high level of frustration tolerance and a high level of resource commitment are required.
 
So, for example, a milonga with 10 men and 60 women?
But you do get groups/milongas with 12 women and 3-4 men! We walked into one a few months ago. Fortunately for me more leaders turned up later. And a milonga with 10 present (fortunately pairs). You might struggle to get 30, let alone 70. There are tango deserts outside metropolises! It can be the only game in town - and a long trip to the next town. And that's why some of us are concerned about recruitment and retention. But, like all organisations and clubs, AT teachers and clubs can rarely agree together on promoting tango.

Maybe look at the UK Argentine Tango Association map for the area (incidentally, Bruno from Tanguito was a key figure initially setting that up).
 
If you are an unknown lady follower and seeking maximizing getting asked to dance, I assume you'd recommend wearing a dress?
That's cultural and regional.

Where I dance, a large proportion of tangueras – young and old, newly arrived and known, beginner and advanced – wear dance trousers, "harem pants," jumpsuits, culottes, demis, etc. Many younger ones prefer jeans, or the T-shirt-and-overalls look. Some of the female leaders dress in men's clothing. Dresses are too, um, dressy for our everyday milongas . . . that's like a man showing up in a suit and tie, which just doesn't happen at ordinary milongas here.

Thinking back to last night: A couple of women I danced with had dresses. Most had slashed or "harem" style pants. Two had jumpsuits.

There could be many reasons for this. My city is big enough to have multiple tango boutiques (at least two that I know of, and formerly a third, at the place where I worked), so dance gear made for tango is readily available. For women, dance trousers are by far what sells.

And to be clear, this isn't some sort of "nuevo thing." It's just how people dress, even at very traditional milongas.

So, around here, "wear a dress" or "wear a skirt" wouldn't be particularly effective advice, though it wouldn't hurt, either. It would just be beside the point completely.
 
Sorry, but I think this is outdated.
I even notice the opposite, that some women try too hard with the expensive tango specific attire to hide the fact that they are not very good dancers. Better to invest that money in learning. (It’s like the people with the best skiing equipment are often the worst skiers.)

Flats are now very common for followers and I know plenty of female leads who lead in heels.
Are you recommending Alora not wear a dress?

Obviously a dress does not guaranty a great dancer.

Personally: I didn't look at shoes. After a bunch of ladies said no by pointing to their flats or saying "I'm wearing my leading shoes" I got the message.

Note if I know someone, or have noticed them following, shoes (or a dress) don't matter. When quickly deciding who to ask it's a tiny bit of circumstantial evidence for a tie breaker.
 
I assume you'd recommend wearing a dress?
It's 2025. It's not some UK school with some strict, archaic, dress code subject to the Tango Police - at least not in Argentina.

Wear whatever they want (but I, personally, find strappy backs, or no straps bandeau tops, annoying - they slip round and need regular adjustments:cool:).

I guess if you're in the 'traditional' male AT retro uniform of suit, starched white shirt, tie, etc, then you might expect something comparable - but dress, trousers, culottes, 'pants', skirt, shorts even - don't care. Whatever's comfortable in the situation. The key point, for leaders and followers, is don't smell bad! In fact, at the last milonga, I think about 50% were wearing dresses or a skirt, whilst the others had trousers/shorts/culottes of various descriptions. It was getting warmer.

Shoes don't matter - unless I notice someone has changed (but that can just be a lengthy milonga and they want comfort). I might look at who's dancing (maybe who not to ask), or who's not being asked to dance, or anyone new. I've already got my special dance partner.
 
Length, too. I can lead a lot of pivoting movements by stepping very far around, almost behind a follower. Or, I can step that way but leave my upper body calm (using significant dissociation, of course), and then let my body spiral "snap" the movement. All of this works largely because my legs and torso are longer than my partner's, and also because my arms are longer and don't have to shift around as I do it. It'd work even if I were lighter than my partner, because it's about each partner wanting to stay oriented toward the other wherever they may be, not about conveying force.

My coach, who is tiny next to me, cannot do this as easily. I am too broad and tall compared to her. Getting around me that way would involve letting go, even despite her superior technique and dissociation, and in fact she tends to lead these things to me as near-soltadas in many cases, with a lot of arm-sliding.

But bulk is a big part of it. I can drive turns standing in place, simply by twisting and spiraling to create massive angular momentum. My coach has to use sacadas to develop the same energy, so she's walking, not standing in place. Likewise, I can lead very deep volcadas without going visibly off my own axis, because I'm a wall next to her, but she really has to go off axis to lead me in a deep volcada, because if she were to play wall, my bulk would upend her regardless of her great technique.

Colgadas have all of the above considerations. Between my long arms and weight, I can send her out as far as I like without really having to lean more than marginally off axis. She pretty much has to let her hands slip along my arms quite far, and really open up the colgada, to support me in the same movement. Even boleos, planeos, and other high-leg-extension movements feel this effect. . . legs are heavy, and a big male leg is a lot harder to counterbalance and control.

And not that lifts are social steps, but I can lift her one-handed with my weak arm. She wouldn't even try to lift me. "It's technique, not strength!" goes only so far. Tell that to your hernia.

There are lots of little things too, including stuff like relative leg length in ganchos and other high invasions. She can throw that stuff my way with abandon because her legs end below mine, and even her highest shots are comfortably within the open space I'm leaving. I have to use a lot of knee bend to achieve the same thing with her.
Have you danced with taller/heavier followers? Most of what you listed is about height/weight, but I still find dancing w/ followers who are taller/heavier than me different than it is to dance with a man
 
I still find dancing w/ followers who are taller/heavier than me different than it is to dance with a man
Yes. I find I have to adapt what I lead. It depends on body shape, size (mine and theirs). It also depends how tall. Amazon women can be distracting - depending what they're wearing! It's similar to dancing with a novice - you have to think what you do. Technique comes to the fore. Some things you rule out; others, maybe you try, and then abandon them, or change to something else. It doesn't stop having a good tanda.

But that's tango. Dance partners come in all shapes and sizes. Alejandra Mantiñan had been mentioned recently. Look at her long-time dance partner Aoniken Quiroga.
 
Alora, I'd suggest using the milongas themselves as a guide for what is best to wear. If the ladies getting more dances are wearing dresses, that's probably the best way to go.

MiradaMiranda, JournalinTime, and Brummbaer: I feel like the thread drifted to what is being worn now, and that it's the modern era. That's great. This thread is about helping Alora get dances. What attire best accomplishes this goal for her?

Here's my regional bias: FWIW easily the majority of lady followers I have seen at milongas wore a dress or skirt. I'd estimate 95+% at the 15 or so different milongas I have attended on the USA West Coast. The rare lady followers in pants are often new to Tango, in my experience.
 
I'm happy to follow in a practice situation, but I don't want to be a follower in dancing.
OP would learn faster if she doesn’t limit her experience building with the ideal male partner in milongas. Instead of searching high and low for a male practice partner, that befriending a woman learning to lead in practicas and even swapping roles will speed up the process. She doesn’t have to have the goal of leading in milongas, but if she does, so what? It’s hard enough to get dances once you are of a certain age (if not already a good dancer).
I lead in practicas but not in milongas, but I would, once I get better, and if the alternative is to iron seats.
There are lots of little things too, including stuff like relative leg length in ganchos and other high invasions. She can throw that stuff my way with abandon because her legs end below mine, and even her highest shots are comfortably within the open space I'm leaving. I have to use a lot of knee bend to achieve the same thing with her
Relative leg length is also an issue the other way around. Women have typically proportionally longer legs than men. When a short guy offers me a gancho, considering my knee (wearing moderate heels) is at the height of his thigh, I have to go considerably down in my other knee to reach down there. I make it work. (Funnily, it’s all my short partners who love ganchos.)
I still find dancing w/ followers who are taller/heavier than me different than it is to dance with a man
Yes. I’m (with heels) as tall as the vast majority of my tall partners. Yet I’m not heavy for the leader. But that’s because it’s part of learning technique to control. A lot of guys dappling in following have not learned how to. In fact just the other day a short skinny guy who normally shies away from tall partners told me he thinks it’s amazing how easy it is for him to dance with me despite the difference.

(Btw, those bootie flats… I’d love to get my hands on a pair but I can’t find any.)
 
, those bootie flats… I’d love to get my hands on a pair but I can’t find any
Susanne, of Susanne & Rafael (Tangotanzen macht schön) wears them, or similar, sometimes. Must also be available in Europe.

See link below
(doesn't seem to allow me to embed 'shorts' and it translates the link

 

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top